Message-ID: <57C9C9BE.6040407@gmail.com>
Date:   Fri, 2 Sep 2016 11:49:34 -0700
From:   John Fastabend <john.fastabend@...il.com>
To:     Florian Fainelli <f.fainelli@...il.com>, netdev@...r.kernel.org
Cc:     jiri@...lanox.com, idosh@...lanox.com, john.fastabend@...el.com,
        ast@...nel.org, davem@...emloft.net, jhs@...atatu.com,
        ecree@...arflare.com, andrew@...n.ch,
        vivien.didelot@...oirfairelinux.com
Subject: Re: Centralizing support for TCAM?

On 16-09-02 10:18 AM, Florian Fainelli wrote:
> Hi all,
> 

Hi Florian,

> (apologies for the long CC list and the fact that I can't type correctly
> email addresses)
> 

My favorite topic ;)

> While working on adding support for the Broadcom Ethernet switches
> Compact Field Processor (which is essentially a TCAM,
> action/policer/rate meter RAMs, 256 entries), I started working with the
> ethtool::rxnfc API which is actually kind of nice in that it fits nicely
> with my use simple case of being able to insert rules at a given or
> driver selected location and has a pretty good flow representation for
> common things you may match: TCP/UDP v4/v6 (not so much for non-IP, or
> L2 stuff though you can use the extension flow representation). It lacks
> support for more complex actions other than redirect to a particular
> port/queue.

When I was doing this for one of the products I work on I decided that
extending ethtool was likely not a good approach and building a netlink
interface would be a better choice. My reasons were mainly extending
ethtool is a bit painful to keep structure compatibility across versions
and I also had use cases that wanted to get notifications both made
easier when using netlink. However my netlink port+extensions were not
accepted and were called a "kernel bypass" and the general opinion was
that it was not going to be accepted upstream. Hence the 'tc' effort.

> 
> Now ethtool::rxnfc is one possible user, but tc and netfiler also are,
> more powerful and extensible, but since this is a resource constrained
> piece of hardware, and it would suck for people to have to implement
> these 3 APIs if we could come up with a central one that satisfies the
> superset offered by tc + netfilter. We can surely imagine an use case we

My opinion is that tc and netfilter are sufficiently different that
building a common layer is challenging and is actually more complex vs
just implementing two interfaces. Always happy to review code though.

There is also an already established packet flow through tc, netfilter,
fdb, l3 in linux that folks want to maintain. At the moment I just don't
see the need for a common layer IMO.

Also adding another layer of abstraction so we end up doing multiple
translations into and out of these layers adds overhead. Eventually
I need to get reasonable operations per second on the TCAM tables.
Reasonable for me being somewhere in the 50k to 100k add/del/update
commands per second. I'm hesitant to create more abstractions then
are actually needed.

> centralize the whole matching + action into a Domain Specific Language
> that we compiled into eBPF and then translate into whatever the HW
> understands, although that raises the question of where do we put the
> translation tool in user space or kernel space.

The eBPF to HW translation I started to look at but gave up. The issue
was the program space of eBPF is much larger than any traditional
parser, table hardware implementation can support so most programs get
rejected (obvious observation right?). I'm more inclined to build
hardware that can support eBPF vs restricting eBPF to fit into a
parser/table model.

Surely something like P4 (DSL) -> ebpf -> HW can constrain the ebpf
programs so they can be loaded without issues. This might be worth
while but mapping it onto 'tc' classifiers like cls_{u32|flower} is a
bit more straight forward.

> 
> So what's everybody's take on this?

Seems a good time to bring up my other issue. When I have a pipeline
with multiple TCAM tables I was trying to figure out how to abstract
that in Linux. Something like the following

    TCAM -> exact match -> TCAM -> exact match

So for now I was thinking of lifting two netdevs into linux something
like, ethx-frontend, ethx-backend. Where rules added to the frontend
go into the front part of the pipeline and rules added to the backend
go into the second half of the pipeline.

It probably needs more thought.

> 
> Thanks!
> 

Not sure that helps but my suggestion is to see if the
cls_u32/cls_flower implementation that exists today solves at least
the TCAM entry problem. Note the "order" field in u32 allows you to
place rules in user specific order.

.John

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