netdev - Re: [PATCH net-next RFC WIP] Patch for XDP support for virtio

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Message-ID: <20161028171812.48073f1f@jkicinski-Precision-T1700>
Date:   Fri, 28 Oct 2016 17:18:12 +0100
From:   Jakub Kicinski <kubakici@...pl>
To:     John Fastabend <john.fastabend@...il.com>
Cc:     David Miller <davem@...emloft.net>, alexander.duyck@...il.com,
        mst@...hat.com, brouer@...hat.com, shrijeet@...il.com,
        tom@...bertland.com, netdev@...r.kernel.org,
        shm@...ulusnetworks.com, roopa@...ulusnetworks.com,
        nikolay@...ulusnetworks.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH net-next RFC WIP] Patch for XDP support for virtio_net

On Fri, 28 Oct 2016 08:56:35 -0700, John Fastabend wrote:
> On 16-10-27 07:10 PM, David Miller wrote:
> > From: Alexander Duyck <alexander.duyck@...il.com>
> > Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 18:43:59 -0700
> >   
> >> On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 6:35 PM, David Miller <davem@...emloft.net> wrote:  
> >>> From: "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@...hat.com>
> >>> Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2016 01:25:48 +0300
> >>>  
> >>>> On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 05:42:18PM -0400, David Miller wrote:  
> >>>>> From: "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@...hat.com>
> >>>>> Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2016 00:30:35 +0300
> >>>>>  
> >>>>>> Something I'd like to understand is how does XDP address the
> >>>>>> problem that 100Byte packets are consuming 4K of memory now.  
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Via page pools.  We're going to make a generic one, but right now
> >>>>> each and every driver implements a quick list of pages to allocate
> >>>>> from (and thus avoid the DMA man/unmap overhead, etc.)  
> >>>>
> >>>> So to clarify, ATM virtio doesn't attempt to avoid dma map/unmap
> >>>> so there should be no issue with that even when using sub/page
> >>>> regions, assuming DMA APIs support sub-page map/unmap correctly.  
> >>>
> >>> That's not what I said.
> >>>
> >>> The page pools are meant to address the performance degradation from
> >>> going to having one packet per page for the sake of XDP's
> >>> requirements.
> >>>
> >>> You still need to have one packet per page for correct XDP operation
> >>> whether you do page pools or not, and whether you have DMA mapping
> >>> (or it's equivalent virutalization operation) or not.  
> >>
> >> Maybe I am missing something here, but why do you need to limit things
> >> to one packet per page for correct XDP operation?  Most of the drivers
> >> out there now are usually storing something closer to at least 2
> >> packets per page, and with the DMA API fixes I am working on there
> >> should be no issue with changing the contents inside those pages since
> >> we won't invalidate or overwrite the data after the DMA buffer has
> >> been synchronized for use by the CPU.  
> > 
> > Because with SKB's you can share the page with other packets.
> > 
> > With XDP you simply cannot.
> > 
> > It's software semantics that are the issue.  SKB frag list pages
> > are read only, XDP packets are writable.
> > 
> > This has nothing to do with "writability" of the pages wrt. DMA
> > mapping or cpu mappings.
> >   
> 
> Sorry I'm not seeing it either. The current xdp_buff is defined
> by,
> 
>   struct xdp_buff {
> 	void *data;
> 	void *data_end;
>   };
> 
> The verifier has an xdp_is_valid_access() check to ensure we don't go
> past data_end. The page for now at least never leaves the driver. For
> the work to get xmit to other devices working I'm still not sure I see
> any issue.

+1

Do we want to make the packet-per-page a requirement because it could
be useful in the future from architectural standpoint?  I guess there
is a trade-off here between having the comfort of people following this
requirement today and making driver support for XDP even more complex.