netdev - Re: [flamebait] xdp, well meaning but pointless

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Message-ID: <20161201160604.GD17239@breakpoint.cc>
Date:   Thu, 1 Dec 2016 17:06:04 +0100
From:   Florian Westphal <fw@...len.de>
To:     Thomas Graf <tgraf@...g.ch>
Cc:     Florian Westphal <fw@...len.de>, netdev@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [flamebait] xdp, well meaning but pointless

Thomas Graf <tgraf@...g.ch> wrote:
> On 12/01/16 at 10:11am, Florian Westphal wrote:
> > Aside from this, XDP, like DPDK, is a kernel bypass.
> > You might say 'Its just stack bypass, not a kernel bypass!'.
> > But what does that mean exactly?  That packets can still be passed
> > onward to normal stack?
> > Bypass solutions like netmap can also inject packets back to
> > kernel stack again.
> 
> I have a fundamental issue with the approach of exporting packets into
> user space and reinjecting them: Once the packet leaves the kernel,
> any security guarantees are off. I have no control over what is
> running in user space and whether whatever listener up there has been
> compromised or not. To me, that's a no go, in particular for servers
> hosting multi tenant workloads. This is one of the main reasons why
> XDP, in particular in combination with BPF, is very interesting to me.

Funny, I see it exactly the other way around :)

To me packet coming from this "userspace injection" is no different than
a tun/tap, or any other packet coming from network.

I see no change or increase in attack surface.