netdev - Re: [PATCH v5 1/4] siphash: add cryptographically secure PRF

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Message-ID: <20161216204128.25034.qmail@ns.sciencehorizons.net>
Date:   16 Dec 2016 15:41:28 -0500
From:   "George Spelvin" <linux@...encehorizons.net>
To:     Jason@...c4.com, tom@...bertland.com
Cc:     ak@...ux.intel.com, davem@...emloft.net, David.Laight@...lab.com,
        djb@...yp.to, ebiggers3@...il.com, hannes@...essinduktion.org,
        jeanphilippe.aumasson@...il.com,
        kernel-hardening@...ts.openwall.com, linux-crypto@...r.kernel.org,
        linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, linux@...encehorizons.net,
        luto@...capital.net, netdev@...r.kernel.org,
        torvalds@...ux-foundation.org, tytso@....edu,
        vegard.nossum@...il.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH v5 1/4] siphash: add cryptographically secure PRF

Tom Herbert wrote:
> Tested this. Distribution and avalanche effect are still good. Speed
> wise I see about a 33% improvement over siphash (20 nsecs/op versus 32
> nsecs). That's about 3x of jhash speed (7 nsecs). So that might closer
> to a more palatable replacement for jhash. Do we lose any security
> advantages with halfsiphash?

What are you testing on?  And what input size?  And does "33% improvement"
mean 4/3 the rate and 3/4 the time?  Or 2/3 the time and 3/2 the rate?

These are very odd results.  On a 64-bit machine, SipHash should be the
same speed per round, and faster because it hashes more data per round.
(Unless you're hitting some unexpected cache/decode effect due to REX
prefixes.)

On a 32-bit machine (other than ARM, where your results might make sense,
or maybe if you're hashing large amounts of data), the difference should
be larger.

And yes, there is a *significant* security loss.  SipHash is 128 bits
("don't worry about it").  hsiphash is 64 bits, which is known breakable
("worry about it"), so we have to do a careful analysis of the cost of
a successful attack.

As mentioned in the e-mails that just flew by, hsiphash is intended
*only* for 32-bit machines which bog down on full SipHash.  On all 64-bit
machines, it will be implemented as an alias for SipHash and the security
concerns will Just Go Away.

The place where hsiphash is expected to make a big difference is 32-bit
x86.  If you only see 33% difference with "gcc -m32", I'm going to be
very confused.