Message-ID: <58F843A4.1080001@gmail.com>
Date:   Wed, 19 Apr 2017 22:14:12 -0700
From:   John Fastabend <john.fastabend@...il.com>
To:     Alexei Starovoitov <alexei.starovoitov@...il.com>
Cc:     Daniel Borkmann <daniel@...earbox.net>,
        Andy Gospodarek <andy@...yhouse.net>,
        Jesper Dangaard Brouer <brouer@...hat.com>,
        Daniel Borkmann <borkmann@...earbox.net>,
        Alexei Starovoitov <ast@...com>,
        "netdev@...r.kernel.org" <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
        "xdp-newbies@...r.kernel.org" <xdp-newbies@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: xdp_redirect ifindex vs port. Was: best API for returning/setting
 egress port?

On 17-04-19 09:58 PM, Alexei Starovoitov wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 09:38:44PM -0700, John Fastabend wrote:
>> On 17-04-19 07:56 PM, Alexei Starovoitov wrote:
>>> On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 12:51:31AM +0200, Daniel Borkmann wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Is there a concrete reason that all the proposed future cases like sockets
>>>> have to be handled within the very same XDP_REDIRECT return code? F.e. why
>>>> not XDP_TX_NIC that only assumes ifindex as proposed in the patch, and future
>>>> ones would get a different return code f.e. XDP_TX_SK only handling sockets
>>>> when we get there implementation-wise?
>>>
>>> yeah. let's keep redirect to sockets, tunnels, crypto and exotic things
>>> out of this discussion.
>>> XDP_REDIRECT should assume L2 raw packet is being redirected to another L2 netdev.
>>> If we make it too generic it will lose performance.
>>>
>>> For cls_bpf the ifindex concept is symmetric. The program can access it as
>>> skb->ifindex on receive and can redirect to another ifindex via bpf_redirect() helper.
>>> Since netdev is not locked, it's actually big plus, since container management
>>> control plane can simply delete netns+veth and it goes away. The program can
>>> have dangling ifindex (if control plane is buggy and didn't update the bpf side),
>>> but it's harmless. Packets that redirect to non-existing ifindex are dropped.
>>> This approach already understood and works well, so for XDP I suggest to use
>>> the same approach initially before starting to reinvent the wheel.
>>> struct xdp_md needs ifindex field and xdp_redirect() helper that redirects
>>> to L2 netdev only. That's it. Simple and easy.
>>> I think the main use cases in John's and Jesper's minds is something like
>>> xdpswitch where packets are coming from VMs and from physical eths and
>>> being redirected to either physical eth or to VM via upcoming vhost+xdp support.
>>> This xdp_md->ifindex + xdp_redirect(to_ifindex) will solve it just fine.
>>
>> hmm I must be missing something, bpf_redirect() helper should be used as a
>> return statement, e.g.
>>
>> 	return bpf_redirect(ifindex, flags);
>>
>> Its a bit awkward to use in any other way. You would have to ensure the
>> program returns TC_ACT_REDIRECT in all cases I presume. It seems incredibly
>> fragile and gains nothing as far as I can tell. bpf_redirect uses per_cpu
>> data and expects the core to call skb_do_redirect() to push the packet into
>> the correct netdev. bpf_redirect() does not modify the skb->ifindex value,
>> looking at the code now.
>>
>> Are you suggesting using xdp_md to store the ifindex value instead of a per
>> cpu variable in the redirect helper? 
> 
> no. i'm suggesting to store in per-cpu scratch area just like cls_bpf does.
> 
>> Do you really mean the xdp_md struct in
>> the uapi headers? 
> 
> yes. since 'ifindex' needs to be part of xdp_md struct in read-only way.
> Just like in cls_bpf does it.
> Otherwise if we attach the same program to multiple taps it won't
> know which tap the traffic arriving on and won't be able to redirect properly.
> 
>> I don't see why it needs to be in the UAPI at all. If we
>> don't like per cpu variables it could be pushed as part of xdp_buff I guess.
> 
> It's not about like or dont-like per-cpu scratch area.
> My main point: it works just fine for cls_bpf and i'm suggesting to do
> the same for xdp_redirect, since no one ever complained about that bit of cls_bpf.
> 
>> My suggestion is we could add an ifindex to the xdp_md structure and have the
>> receiving NIC driver populate the value assuming it is useful to programs. But,
>> if we use cls_bpf as a model then xdp_md ifindex is more or less independent of
>> the redirect helper. 
> 
> exactly. arriving ifindex is independent of xdp_redirect helper.
> 
>> In my opinion we should avoid diverging cls bpf and xdp bpf
>> in subtle ways like handling of ifindex and redirect.
> 
> exactly. I'm saying the same thing.
> I'm not sure which part of my proposal was so confusing.
> Sorry about that.
> 

Aha what you are suggesting is exactly what I prototyped on virtio_net so I'm
happy :) I just didn't manage to parse it for whatever reason must be getting
tired.

Thanks,
John

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