netdev - Re: [RFC iproute2 0/8] RDMA tool

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Message-ID: <20170504170550.2028349f@xeon-e3>
Date:   Thu, 4 May 2017 17:05:50 -0700
From:   Stephen Hemminger <stephen@...workplumber.org>
To:     Doug Ledford <dledford@...hat.com>
Cc:     Dennis Dalessandro <dennis.dalessandro@...el.com>,
        Leon Romanovsky <leon@...nel.org>,
        Bart Van Assche <Bart.VanAssche@...disk.com>,
        "jiri@...lanox.com" <jiri@...lanox.com>,
        "linux-rdma@...r.kernel.org" <linux-rdma@...r.kernel.org>,
        "ram.amrani@...ium.com" <ram.amrani@...ium.com>,
        "sagi@...mberg.me" <sagi@...mberg.me>,
        "ogerlitz@...lanox.com" <ogerlitz@...lanox.com>,
        "hch@....de" <hch@....de>,
        "netdev@...r.kernel.org" <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
        "jgunthorpe@...idianresearch.com" <jgunthorpe@...idianresearch.com>,
        "ariela@...lanox.com" <ariela@...lanox.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC iproute2 0/8] RDMA tool

On Thu, 04 May 2017 16:45:58 -0400
Doug Ledford <dledford@...hat.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 2017-05-04 at 15:26 -0400, Dennis Dalessandro wrote:
> > On 05/04/2017 02:45 PM, Leon Romanovsky wrote:  
> > > 
> > > On Thu, May 04, 2017 at 06:30:27PM +0000, Bart Van Assche wrote:  
> > > > 
> > > > On Thu, 2017-05-04 at 21:25 +0300, Leon Romanovsky wrote:  
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Thu, May 04, 2017 at 06:10:54PM +0000, Bart Van Assche
> > > > > wrote:  
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Thu, 2017-05-04 at 21:02 +0300, Leon Romanovsky wrote:  
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Following our discussion both in mailing list [1] and at
> > > > > > > the LPC 2016 [2],
> > > > > > > we would like to propose this RDMA tool to be part of
> > > > > > > iproute2 package
> > > > > > > and finally improve this situation.  
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Hello Leon,
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Although I really appreciate your work: can you clarify why
> > > > > > you would like to
> > > > > > add *RDMA* functionality to an *IP routing* tool? I haven't
> > > > > > found any motivation
> > > > > > for adding RDMA functionality to iproute2 in [1].  
> > > > > 
> > > > > We are planning to reuse the same infrastructure provided by
> > > > > iproute2,
> > > > > like netlink parsing, access to distributions, same CLI and
> > > > > same standards.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Right now, RDMA is already tightened to netdev: iWARP, RoCE,
> > > > > IPoIB, HFI-VNIC.
> > > > > Many drivers (mlx, qed, i40, cxgb) are sharing code between net
> > > > > and
> > > > > RDMA.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I do expect that iproute2 will be installed on every machine
> > > > > with any
> > > > > type of connection, including IB and OPA.
> > > > > 
> > > > > So I think that it is enough to be part of that suite and don't
> > > > > invent
> > > > > our own for one specific tool.  
> > > > 
> > > > Hello Leon,
> > > > 
> > > > Sorry but to me that sounds like a weak argument for including
> > > > RDMA functionality
> > > > in iproute2. There is already a library for communication over
> > > > netlink sockets,
> > > > namely libnl. Is there functionality that is in iproute2 but not
> > > > in libnl and
> > > > that is needed for the new tool? If so, have you considered to
> > > > create a new
> > > > library for that functionality?  
> > > 
> > > It is not hard to create new tool, the hardest part is to ensure
> > > that it is
> > > part of the distributions. Did you count how many months we are
> > > trying to
> > > add rdma-core to debian?  
> > 
> > I do agree that it is a strange pairing and am not really a fan.
> > However 
> > at the end of the day it's just a name for a repo/package. If the 
> > iproute folks are fine to include rdma in their repo/package, great
> > we 
> > can leverage their code for CLI and other common stuff.  
> 
> If you look into the iproute2 package, it becomes clear that the name
> iproute2 is historical and not really accurate any more.  It contains
> things like the bridge control software, tc for controlling send
> queues, and many things network related but not routing related.  The
> rdma tool is a perfectly fine fit in the sense that it is an additional
> network management tool IMO.
> 
> For reference, here's the list of stuff already in iproute on my Fedora
> 24 box:
> 
> /usr/sbin/arpd
> /usr/sbin/bridge
> /usr/sbin/cbq
> /usr/sbin/ctstat
> /usr/sbin/genl
> /usr/sbin/ifcfg
> /usr/sbin/ifstat
> /usr/sbin/ip
> /usr/sbin/lnstat
> /usr/sbin/nstat
> /usr/sbin/routef
> /usr/sbin/routel
> /usr/sbin/rtacct
> /usr/sbin/rtmon
> /usr/sbin/rtpr
> /usr/sbin/rtstat
> /usr/sbin/ss
> /usr/sbin/tc
> /usr/sbin/tipc
> 
> And in fact, if you check, tipc is almost similar to RDMA ;-)  So, I
> suggest people not get hung up on the name iproute2, the fit is fine
> when you look deeper into the nature of the package.
> 

Iproute2 is a collection like busybox. It has bridging, devlink and tipc already.