netdev - RE: [PATCH net-next 9/9] ipvlan: introduce individual MAC addresses

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Message-ID: <695CDAEB5A6CE2498DE413F2A9AA829609162327@IRSMSX101.ger.corp.intel.com>
Date:   Tue, 9 May 2017 18:41:17 +0000
From:   "Chiappero, Marco" <marco.chiappero@...el.com>
To:     Dan Williams <dcbw@...hat.com>, Jiri Benc <jbenc@...hat.com>
CC:     "netdev@...r.kernel.org" <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
        "David S . Miller" <davem@...emloft.net>,
        "Kirsher, Jeffrey T" <jeffrey.t.kirsher@...el.com>,
        "Duyck, Alexander H" <alexander.h.duyck@...el.com>,
        "Grandhi, Sainath" <sainath.grandhi@...el.com>,
        Mahesh Bandewar <maheshb@...gle.com>
Subject: RE: [PATCH net-next 9/9] ipvlan: introduce individual MAC addresses


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan Williams [mailto:dcbw@...hat.com]
> Sent: Monday, May 8, 2017 7:13 PM
> To: Chiappero, Marco <marco.chiappero@...el.com>; Jiri Benc
> <jbenc@...hat.com>
> Cc: netdev@...r.kernel.org; David S . Miller <davem@...emloft.net>; Kirsher,
> Jeffrey T <jeffrey.t.kirsher@...el.com>; Duyck, Alexander H
> <alexander.h.duyck@...el.com>; Grandhi, Sainath
> <sainath.grandhi@...el.com>; Mahesh Bandewar <maheshb@...gle.com>
> Subject: Re: [PATCH net-next 9/9] ipvlan: introduce individual MAC addresses
> 
> On Mon, 2017-05-08 at 15:29 +0000, Chiappero, Marco wrote:
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Jiri Benc [mailto:jbenc@...hat.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 4, 2017 5:44 PM
> > > To: Chiappero, Marco <marco.chiappero@...el.com>
> > > Cc: Dan Williams <dcbw@...hat.com>; netdev@...r.kernel.org; David S
> > > 
> > > And doing some kind of weird MAC NAT in ipvlan just to satisfy
> > > broken tools that can't cope with multiple interfaces with the same
> > > MAC address is wrong, too.
> >
> > Ipvlan has always had the MAC issue, regardless, these tools simply
> > make it more apparent. And as I said already, whether they are broken
> 
> If we're talking about the slaves being unable to change when the parent MAC
> changes, everyone agrees that was a bug.
> 
> If we are talking about the "all slaves have the same MAC" then that's not an
> "issue", that's the way it's designed.  Whether that design is the best design
> possible is debatable, but that's the way it currently is.

I'm referring to the latter, the former is obvious. That "design" looks like a temporary workaround to me, in fact a couple of TODOs in the code lead to believe it is. They should be removed, at the very least.

> > is debatable (yet I have to read a reasonable motivation). At the
> 
> Existing tools are already broken for bond slaves and a couple existing drivers,
> see below.
> 
> Note that making the MACs unique would break DHCP functionality, because
> now the MAC address encoded in the 'chaddr' field of the DHCP packet would
> no longer correspond to the MAC address of the device that DHCP replies should
> be received on.  The userspace process writes the 'chaddr' field, and the
> userspace process would see the unique (and
> incorrect) MAC address.

Fair point. However, despite not fixing the issues with DHCP, it would be no way worse that it is now (even though I admit I don't like much the workaround). BTW, I don't know about the ISC upstream version, but on Debian/Ubuntu the -B flag is not available, which makes ipvlan+DHCP non-viable on a very large number of deployments.

> > very least their expectation to have unique addresses on the same
> > broadcast domain is hardly arguable. Should ipvlan considered special?
> > Again, questionable.
> 
> bond slaves
> drivers/net/ethernet/toshiba/ps3_gelic_net.c
> drivers/s390/net/qeth_l3_main.c
> 
> already all have the same MAC address for different netdevices.  Yeah, not many
> people have PS3s anymore, but s390 qeth is fairly widely used.
>  Just pointing out that ipvlan is hardly the first device to have encountered this
> issue, or to have solved it this way.  qeth does pretty much the same thing as
> ipvlan.
> 
> I'm not arguing that ipvlan is perfect.  I'm just arguing that in its current form
> (eg, virtualized L2 device) making this change is incorrect.

Don't get me wrong, I understand and appreciate your lengthy reply, even though the fact that a poor solution is already included elsewhere doesn't make it any better.
However, regardless of the uniqueness topic, I don't feel is completely right to change the whole world upstairs making it ipvlan aware either, unless there is a real and coherent differentiation (e.g. L3 only interfaces). I'll drop considering ipvlan as an option for now.


Regards,
Marco

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