netdev - Re: [RFC PATCH net-next 3/5] bpf/verifier: feed pointer-to-unknown-scalar casts into scalar ALU path

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Date:   Thu, 8 Jun 2017 20:07:53 +0100
From:   Edward Cree <ecree@...arflare.com>
To:     Alexei Starovoitov <alexei.starovoitov@...il.com>
CC:     <davem@...emloft.net>, Alexei Starovoitov <ast@...com>,
        Daniel Borkmann <daniel@...earbox.net>,
        <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
        iovisor-dev <iovisor-dev@...ts.iovisor.org>,
        LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH net-next 3/5] bpf/verifier: feed
 pointer-to-unknown-scalar casts into scalar ALU path

On 08/06/17 19:41, Alexei Starovoitov wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 08, 2017 at 06:12:39PM +0100, Edward Cree wrote:
>> On 08/06/17 17:50, Alexei Starovoitov wrote:
>>> On Thu, Jun 08, 2017 at 04:25:39PM +0100, Edward Cree wrote:
>>>> On 08/06/17 03:35, Alexei Starovoitov wrote:
>>>>> such large back and forth move doesn't help reviewing.
>>>>> may be just merge it into previous patch?
>>>>> Or keep that function in the right place in patch 2 already?
>>>> I think 'diff' got a bit confused, and maybe with different options I could
>>>>  have got it to produce something more readable.  But I think I will just
>>>>  merge this into patch 2; it's only separate because it started out as an
>>>>  experiment.
>>> after sleeping on it I'm not sure we should be allowing such pointer
>>> arithmetic. In normal C code people do fancy tricks with lower 3 bits
>>> of the pointer, but in bpf code I cannot see such use case.
>>> What kind of realistic code will be doing ptr & 0x40 ?
>> Well, I didn't support it because I saw a use case.  I supported it because
>>  it seemed easy to do and the code came out reasonably elegant-looking.
>> Since this is guarded by env->allow_ptr_leaks, I can't see any reason _not_
>>  to let people try fancy tricks with the low bits of pointers.
>> I agree ptr & 0x40 is a crazy thing with no imaginable use case, but...
>> "Unix was not designed to stop its users from doing stupid things, as that
>>  would also stop them from doing clever things." ;-)
> well, I agree with the philosophy :) but I also see few reasons not to allow it:
> 1. it immediately becomes uapi and if later we find out that it's preventing us
> to do something we actually really need we'll be stuck looking for workaround
What could it prevent us from doing, though?  It's basically equivalent to giving
 BPF an opcode that casts a pointer to a u64, which of course is only allowed if
 allow_ptr_leaks is true.  And since we don't feed any knowledge about the pointer
 into the verifier, it's just like any other way of filling a register with
 arbitrary, unknown bits.
I can fully appreciate why you're being cautious, what with uapi and all.  But I
 don't think there's any actual problem here.  Open to being convinced, though.
> 2. it's the same pruning concern. probably doesn't fully apply here, but
> the reason we don't track 'if (reg == 1) ...'
Don't we though?
http://elixir.free-electrons.com/linux/v4.12-rc4/source/kernel/bpf/verifier.c#L2127
> is if we mark that
> register as known const_imm in the true branch, it will screw up
> pruning quite badly. It's trivial to track and may seem useful,
> but hurts instead.
(Thinking out loud...)

What would be really nice is a way to propagate limits backwards as well as
 forwards, so that the verifier can say "when I tested this branch, I used
 this part of the state, I read four bytes past this pointer".  Then when it
 wants to prune, it can say "well, the state this time isn't as strong, but
 it still satisfies everything I actually used".
But that sounds like it would be very hard indeed to do.

Maybe with the basic-block DAG stuff David's been talking about, we could
 find all the paths that reach a block, and take the union of their states,
 and then run through the block feeding it that combined state.  But that
 could reject code that relies on correlation of the state (i.e. if r1 != 0
 then r2 is valid ptr I can access, etc) so would still need the 'walk with
 each individual state' as a fallback.  Though at least you'd have all the
 states at once so you could find out which ones were subsumed, instead of
 hoping you get to them in the right order.

-Ed