netdev - Re: [PATCH net-next] virtio-net: invoke zerocopy callback on xmit path if no tx napi

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Message-ID: <20170824072425-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org>
Date:   Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:34:06 +0300
From:   "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@...hat.com>
To:     Willem de Bruijn <willemdebruijn.kernel@...il.com>
Cc:     Koichiro Den <den@...ipeden.com>, Jason Wang <jasowang@...hat.com>,
        virtualization@...ts.linux-foundation.org,
        Network Development <netdev@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH net-next] virtio-net: invoke zerocopy callback on xmit
 path if no tx napi

On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 11:28:24PM -0400, Willem de Bruijn wrote:
> >> > * as a generic solution, if we were to somehow overcome the safety issue, track
> >> > the delay and do copy if some threshold is reached could be an answer, but it's
> >> > hard for now.> * so things like the current vhost-net implementation of deciding whether or not
> >> > to do zerocopy beforehand referring the zerocopy tx error ratio is a point of
> >> > practical compromise.
> >>
> >> The fragility of this mechanism is another argument for switching to tx napi
> >> as default.
> >>
> >> Is there any more data about the windows guest issues when completions
> >> are not queued within a reasonable timeframe? What is this timescale and
> >> do we really need to work around this.
> >
> > I think it's pretty large, many milliseconds.
> >
> > But I wonder what do you mean by "work around". Using buffers within
> > limited time frame sounds like a reasonable requirement to me.
> 
> Vhost-net zerocopy delays completions until the skb is really
> sent. Traffic shaping can introduce msec timescale latencies.
> 
> The delay may actually be a useful signal. If the guest does not
> orphan skbs early, TSQ will throttle the socket causing host
> queue build up.
> 
> But, if completions are queued in-order, unrelated flows may be
> throttled as well. Allowing out of order completions would resolve
> this HoL blocking.

There's no issue with out of order. It does not break any guests AFAIK.

> > Neither
> > do I see why would using tx interrupts within guest be a work around -
> > AFAIK windows driver uses tx interrupts.
> 
> It does not address completion latency itself. What I meant was
> that in an interrupt-driver model, additional starvation issues,
> such as the potential deadlock raised at the start of this thread,
> or the timer delay observed before packets were orphaned in
> virtio-net in commit b0c39dbdc204, are mitigated.
> 
> Specifically, it breaks the potential deadlock where sockets are
> blocked waiting for completions (to free up budget in sndbuf, tsq, ..),
> yet completion handling is blocked waiting for a new packet to
> trigger free_old_xmit_skbs from start_xmit.
> 
> >> That is the only thing keeping us from removing the HoL blocking in vhost-net zerocopy.
> >
> > We don't enable network watchdog on virtio but we could and maybe
> > should.
> 
> Can you elaborate?