netdev - Re: [RFC net-next 0/5] TSN: Add qdisc-based config interfaces for traffic shapers

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Message-ID: <20170907161838.GB9064@sisyphus.home.austad.us>
Date:   Thu, 7 Sep 2017 18:18:38 +0200
From:   Henrik Austad <henrik@...tad.us>
To:     Richard Cochran <richardcochran@...il.com>
Cc:     Vinicius Costa Gomes <vinicius.gomes@...el.com>,
        netdev@...r.kernel.org, jhs@...atatu.com, xiyou.wangcong@...il.com,
        jiri@...nulli.us, intel-wired-lan@...ts.osuosl.org,
        andre.guedes@...el.com, ivan.briano@...el.com,
        jesus.sanchez-palencia@...el.com, boon.leong.ong@...el.com
Subject: Re: [RFC net-next 0/5] TSN: Add qdisc-based config interfaces for
 traffic shapers

On Thu, Sep 07, 2017 at 05:53:15PM +0200, Richard Cochran wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 07, 2017 at 05:27:51PM +0200, Henrik Austad wrote:
> > On Thu, Sep 07, 2017 at 02:40:18PM +0200, Richard Cochran wrote:
> > And if you want to this driver to act as a bridge, how do you accomodate 
> > change in network requirements? (i.e. how does this work with switchdev?)
> 
> To my understanding, this Qdisc idea provides QoS for the host's
> transmitted traffic, and nothing more.

Ok, then we're on the same page.

> > - Or am I overthinking this?
> 
> Being able to configure the external ports of a switchdev is probably
> a nice feature, but that is another story.  (But maybe I misunderstood
> the authors' intent!)

ok, chalk that one up for later perhaps

> > If you have more than 1 application in userspace that wants to send data 
> > using this scheduler, how do you ensure fair transmission of frames? (both 
> > how much bandwidth they use,
> 
> There are many ways to handle this, and we shouldn't put any of that
> policy into the kernel.  For example, there might be a monolithic
> application with configurable threads, or an allocation server that
> grants bandwidth to applications via IPC, or a multiplexing stream
> server like jack, pulse, etc, and so on...

true

> > but also ordering of frames from each application)
> 
> Not sure what you mean by this.

Fair enough, I'm not that good at making myself clear :)

Let's see if I can make a better attempt:

If you have 2 separate applications that have their own streams going to 
different endpoints - but both are in the same class, then they will 
share the qdisc bandwidth.

So application 
- A sends frame A1, A2, A3, .. An
- B sends B1, B2, .. Bn

What I was trying to describe was: if application A send 2 frames, and B 
sends 2 frames at the same time, then you would hope that the order would 
be A1, B1, A2, B2, and not A1, A2, B1, B2.

None of this would be a problem if you expect a *single* user, like the 
allocation server you described above. Again, I think this is just me 
overthinking the problem right now :)

> > Do you expect all of this to be handled in userspace?
> 
> Yes, I do.

ok, fair enough

Thanks for answering my questions!

-- 
Henrik Austad

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