netdev - Re: [PATCH 06/18] x86, barrier: stop speculation for failed access

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Date:   Sun, 7 Jan 2018 12:15:40 -0800
From:   Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@...el.com>
To:     Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>
Cc:     Willy Tarreau <w@....eu>,
        Alexei Starovoitov <alexei.starovoitov@...il.com>,
        Alan Cox <gnomes@...rguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
        Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        linux-arch@...r.kernel.org, Andi Kleen <ak@...ux.intel.com>,
        Arnd Bergmann <arnd@...db.de>,
        Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>,
        Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>,
        Network Development <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
        Ingo Molnar <mingo@...hat.com>,
        "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@...or.com>,
        Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 06/18] x86, barrier: stop speculation for failed access_ok

On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 11:47 AM, Linus Torvalds
<torvalds@...ux-foundation.org> wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 10:33 PM, Willy Tarreau <w@....eu> wrote:
>>
>> To be fair there's overreaction on both sides. The vast majority of
>> users need to get a 100% safe system and will never notice  any
>> difference.
>
> There is no such thing as a "100% safe system". Never will be - unless
> you make sure you have no users.
>
> Also, people definitely *are* noticing the performance issues with the
> current set of patches, and they are causing real problems. Go search
> for reports of Amazon AWS slowdowns.
>
> So this whole "security is so important that performance doesn't
> matter" mindset is pure and utter garbage.
>
> And the whole "normal people won't even notice" is pure garbage too.
> Don't spread that bullshit when you see actual normal people
> complaining.
>
> Performance matters. A *LOT*.

I'm thinking we should provide the option to at least build the
hot-path nospec_array_ptr() usages without an lfence.

    CONFIG_SPECTRE1_PARANOIA_SAFE
    CONFIG_SPECTRE1_PARANOIA_PERF

...if only for easing performance testing and let the distribution set
its policy.

Where hot-path usages can do:

    nospec_relax(nospec_array_ptr())

...to optionally ellide the lfence.