netdev - Re: RFC on writel and writel

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite for Android: free password hash cracker in your pocket

[<prev] [next>] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Date:   Wed, 28 Mar 2018 17:56:05 +1100
From:   Benjamin Herrenschmidt <benh@...nel.crashing.org>
To:     Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>
Cc:     Alexander Duyck <alexander.duyck@...il.com>,
        Will Deacon <will.deacon@....com>,
        Sinan Kaya <okaya@...eaurora.org>,
        Arnd Bergmann <arnd@...db.de>, Jason Gunthorpe <jgg@...pe.ca>,
        David Laight <David.Laight@...lab.com>,
        Oliver <oohall@...il.com>,
        "open list:LINUX FOR POWERPC (32-BIT AND 64-BIT)" 
        <linuxppc-dev@...ts.ozlabs.org>,
        "linux-rdma@...r.kernel.org" <linux-rdma@...r.kernel.org>,
        "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>,
        "netdev@...r.kernel.org" <netdev@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: RFC on writel and writel_relaxed

On Wed, 2018-03-28 at 06:53 +0000, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 27, 2018, 20:43 Benjamin Herrenschmidt <benh@...nel.crash
> ing.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Of course, you'd have to be pretty odd to want to start a DMA
> > with a
> > > read anyway - partly exactly because it's bad for performance
> > since
> > > reads will be synchronous and not buffered like a write).
> > 
> > I have bad memories of old adaptec controllers ...
> 
> *Old* adaptec controllers were likely to use the in/out instructions
> for status and command data.
> 
> Those are actually even more ordered than UC reads and writes: the
> in/out instructions are not just fully ordered, but are fully
> *synchronous* on x86. 
> 
> So not just doing accesses in order, but actually waiting for
> everything to drain before they start executing, but they also wait
> for the operation itself to complete (ie "out" will not just queue
> the write, it will then wait for the queue to empty and the write
> data to hit the line).
> 
> That's why in/out were *so* slow, and why nobody uses them any more
> (well, the address size limitations and the lack of any remapping of
> the address obviously also are a reason).

All true indeed, though a lot of other archs never quite made them
fully synchronous, which was another can of worms ... oh well.

As for Adaptec, you might be right, I do remember having cases of old
stuff triggering DMA on reads, it might have been "Mac" variants of
Adaptec using MMIO or something...

Cheers,
Ben.