netdev - Re: [RFC PATCH 2/3] netdev: kernel-only IFF

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Message-ID: <CADGSJ23Zr7_CLMr1W9qhcWux59+aCvFdTg_nQ7Mmp5B-FWL8=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Date:   Wed, 4 Apr 2018 00:36:34 -0700
From:   Siwei Liu <loseweigh@...il.com>
To:     David Ahern <dsahern@...il.com>
Cc:     Jiri Pirko <jiri@...nulli.us>, Si-Wei Liu <si-wei.liu@...cle.com>,
        "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@...hat.com>,
        Stephen Hemminger <stephen@...workplumber.org>,
        Alexander Duyck <alexander.h.duyck@...el.com>,
        David Miller <davem@...emloft.net>,
        "Brandeburg, Jesse" <jesse.brandeburg@...el.com>,
        Jakub Kicinski <kubakici@...pl>,
        Jason Wang <jasowang@...hat.com>,
        "Samudrala, Sridhar" <sridhar.samudrala@...el.com>,
        Netdev <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
        virtualization@...ts.linux-foundation.org,
        virtio-dev@...ts.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 2/3] netdev: kernel-only IFF_HIDDEN netdevice

On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 6:04 PM, David Ahern <dsahern@...il.com> wrote:
> On 4/3/18 9:42 AM, Jiri Pirko wrote:
>>>
>>> There are other use cases that want to hide a device from userspace. I
>>
>> What usecases do you have in mind?
>
> As mentioned in a previous response some kernel drivers create control
> netdevs. Just as in this case users should not be mucking with it, and
> S/W like lldpd should ignore it.
>
>>
>>> would prefer a better solution than playing games with name prefixes and
>>> one that includes an API for users to list all devices -- even ones
>>> hidden by default.
>>
>> Netdevice hiding feels a bit scarry for me. This smells like a workaround
>> for userspace issues. Why can't the netdevice be visible always and
>> userspace would know what is it and what should it do with it?
>>
>> Once we start with hiding, there are other things related to that which
>> appear. Like who can see what, levels of visibility etc...
>>
>
> I would not advocate for any API that does not allow users to have full
> introspection. The intent is to hide the netdev by default but have an
> option to see it.

I'm fine with having a link dump API to inspect the hidden netdev. As
said, the name for hidden netdevs should be in a separate device
namespace, and we did not even get closer to what it should look like
as I don't want to make it just an option for ip link. Perhaps a new
set of sub-commands of, say, 'ip device'.

-Siwei