netdev - Re: [PATCH RFC net-next 00/11] udp gso

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Message-ID: <CAKgT0UddxeAR2Sf4gtHOyN6o7+9p02xFnwYB0ceYxBCV4iTi-w@mail.gmail.com>
Date:   Fri, 20 Apr 2018 13:08:17 -0700
From:   Alexander Duyck <alexander.duyck@...il.com>
To:     Tushar Dave <tushar.n.dave@...cle.com>
Cc:     David Miller <davem@...emloft.net>,
        Sowmini Varadhan <sowmini.varadhan@...cle.com>,
        Willem de Bruijn <willemdebruijn.kernel@...il.com>,
        "Samudrala, Sridhar" <sridhar.samudrala@...el.com>,
        Netdev <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
        Willem de Bruijn <willemb@...gle.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC net-next 00/11] udp gso

On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 11:27 AM, Tushar Dave <tushar.n.dave@...cle.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 04/18/2018 11:12 AM, Alexander Duyck wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 10:28 AM, David Miller <davem@...emloft.net>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> From: Sowmini Varadhan <sowmini.varadhan@...cle.com>
>>> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 08:31:03 -0400
>>>
>>>> However, I share Sridhar's concerns about the very fundamental change
>>>> to UDP message boundary semantics here.  There is actually no such thing
>>>> as a "segment" in udp, so in general this feature makes me a little
>>>> uneasy.  Well behaved udp applications should already be sending mtu
>>>> sized datagrams. And the not-so-well-behaved ones are probably relying
>>>> on IP fragmentation/reassembly to take care of datagram boundary
>>>> semantics
>>>> for them?
>>>>
>>>> As Sridhar points out, the feature is not really "negotiated" - one side
>>>> unilaterally sets the option. If the receiver is a classic/POSIX UDP
>>>> implementation, it will have no way of knowing that message boundaries
>>>> have been re-adjusted at the sender.
>>>
>>>
>>> There are no "semantics".
>>>
>>> What ends up on the wire is the same before the kernel/app changes as
>>> afterwards.
>>>
>>> The only difference is that instead of the application doing N - 1
>>> sendmsg() calls with mtu sized writes, it's giving everything all at
>>> once and asking the kernel to segment.
>>>
>>> It even gives the application control over the size of the packets,
>>> which I think is completely prudent in this situation.
>>
>>
>> My only concern with the patch set is verifying what mitigations are
>> in case so that we aren't trying to set an MSS size that results in a
>> frame larger than MTU. I'm still digging through the code and trying
>> to grok it, but I figured I might just put the question out there to
>> may my reviewing easier.
>>
>> Also any plans for HW offload support for this? I vaguely recall that
>> the igb and ixgbe parts had support for something like this in
>> hardware. I would have to double check to see what exactly is
>> supported.
>
>
> Alex,
>
> If by HW support you meant UFO (UDP Fragmentation Offload), then I have
> dig into that last year using ixgbe. And I found that Intel 10G HW does
> break large UDP packets into MTU size however it does not generate
> *true* IP fragments. Instead, when large (> MTU) size UDP packet is
> given to NIC, HW generates unique UDP packets with distinct IP
> fragments. This makes it impossible for receiving station to reassemble
> them into one UDP packet.
>
> I am not sure about igb!
>
> -Tushar

Tushar,

I am not sure you have been following this thread, but this is about
adding UDP GSO support, not fragmentation offload. With GSO support
the UDP frames are not expected to be reassembled they are meant to be
handled as individual frames.

What you have described is why I am interested. This patch set adds
support for GSO segmentation, not fragmentation.

Thanks.

- Alex