netdev - Re: [virtio-dev] Re: [Qemu-devel] [PATCH] qemu: Introduce VIRTIO_NET_F_STANDBY feature bit to virtio

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Message-ID: <20180618152747.5b5ab22c.cohuck@redhat.com>
Date:   Mon, 18 Jun 2018 15:27:47 +0200
From:   Cornelia Huck <cohuck@...hat.com>
To:     "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@...hat.com>
Cc:     Siwei Liu <loseweigh@...il.com>,
        "Samudrala, Sridhar" <sridhar.samudrala@...el.com>,
        Alexander Duyck <alexander.h.duyck@...el.com>,
        virtio-dev@...ts.oasis-open.org, aaron.f.brown@...el.com,
        Jiri Pirko <jiri@...nulli.us>, Jakub Kicinski <kubakici@...pl>,
        Netdev <netdev@...r.kernel.org>, qemu-devel@...gnu.org,
        virtualization@...ts.linux-foundation.org
Subject: Re: [virtio-dev] Re: [Qemu-devel] [PATCH] qemu: Introduce
 VIRTIO_NET_F_STANDBY feature bit to virtio_net

On Fri, 15 Jun 2018 15:31:43 +0300
"Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@...hat.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 11:32:42AM +0200, Cornelia Huck wrote:
> > On Fri, 15 Jun 2018 05:34:24 +0300
> > "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@...hat.com> wrote:
> >   
> > > On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 12:02:31PM +0200, Cornelia Huck wrote:  
> >   
> > > > > > I am not all that familiar with how Qemu manages network devices. If we can
> > > > > > do all the
> > > > > > required management of the primary/standby devices within Qemu, that is
> > > > > > definitely a better
> > > > > > approach without upper layer involvement.      
> > > > > 
> > > > > Right. I would imagine in the extreme case the upper layer doesn't
> > > > > have to be involved at all if QEMU manages all hot plug/unplug logic.
> > > > > The management tool can supply passthrough device and virtio with the
> > > > > same group UUID, QEMU auto-manages the presence of the primary, and
> > > > > hot plug the device as needed before or after the migration.    
> > > > 
> > > > I do not really see how you can manage that kind of stuff in QEMU only.    
> > > 
> > > So right now failover is limited to pci passthrough devices only.
> > > The idea is to realize the vfio device but not expose it
> > > to guest. Have a separate command to expose it to guest.
> > > Hotunplug would also hide it from guest but not unrealize it.  
> > 
> > So, this would not be real hot(un)plug, but 'hide it from the guest',
> > right? The concept of "we have it realized in QEMU, but the guest can't
> > discover and use it" should be translatable to non-pci as well (at
> > least for ccw).
> >   
> > > 
> > > This will help ensure that e.g. on migration failure we can
> > > re-expose the device without risk of running out of resources.  
> > 
> > Makes sense.
> > 
> > Should that 'hidden' state be visible/settable from outside as well
> > (e.g. via a property)? I guess yes, so that management software has a
> > chance to see whether a device is visible.  
> 
> Might be handy for debug, but note that since QEMU manages this
> state it's transient: can change at any time, so it's kind
> of hard for management to rely on it.

Might be another reason to have this controlled by management software;
being able to find out easily why a device is not visible to the guest
seems to be a useful thing.

Anyway, let's defer this discussion until it is clear how we actually
want to handle the whole setup.

> 
> > Settable may be useful if we
> > find another use case for hiding realized devices.