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Date:   Mon, 18 Feb 2019 10:38:51 +0100
From:   Daniel Borkmann <daniel@...earbox.net>
To:     Magnus Karlsson <magnus.karlsson@...il.com>
Cc:     Jesper Dangaard Brouer <brouer@...hat.com>,
        Jonathan Lemon <jonathan.lemon@...il.com>,
        Magnus Karlsson <magnus.karlsson@...el.com>,
        Björn Töpel <bjorn.topel@...el.com>,
        ast@...nel.org, Network Development <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
        Jakub Kicinski <jakub.kicinski@...ronome.com>,
        Björn Töpel <bjorn.topel@...il.com>,
        "Zhang, Qi Z" <qi.z.zhang@...el.com>, xiaolong.ye@...el.com,
        "xdp-newbies@...r.kernel.org" <xdp-newbies@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH bpf-next v4 0/2] libbpf: adding AF_XDP support

On 02/18/2019 09:20 AM, Magnus Karlsson wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 5:48 PM Daniel Borkmann <daniel@...earbox.net> wrote:
>>
>> On 02/13/2019 12:55 PM, Jesper Dangaard Brouer wrote:
>>> On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 12:32:47 +0100
>>> Magnus Karlsson <magnus.karlsson@...il.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 9:44 PM Jonathan Lemon <jonathan.lemon@...il.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 8 Feb 2019, at 5:05, Magnus Karlsson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> This patch proposes to add AF_XDP support to libbpf. The main reason
>>>>>> for this is to facilitate writing applications that use AF_XDP by
>>>>>> offering higher-level APIs that hide many of the details of the AF_XDP
>>>>>> uapi. This is in the same vein as libbpf facilitates XDP adoption by
>>>>>> offering easy-to-use higher level interfaces of XDP
>>>>>> functionality. Hopefully this will facilitate adoption of AF_XDP, make
>>>>>> applications using it simpler and smaller, and finally also make it
>>>>>> possible for applications to benefit from optimizations in the AF_XDP
>>>>>> user space access code. Previously, people just copied and pasted the
>>>>>> code from the sample application into their application, which is not
>>>>>> desirable.
>>>>>
>>>>> I like the idea of encapsulating the boilerplate logic in a library.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do think there is an important missing piece though - there should be
>>>>> some code which queries the netdev for how many queues are attached, and
>>>>> create the appropriate number of umem/AF_XDP sockets.
>>>>>
>>>>> I ran into this issue when testing the current AF_XDP code - on my test
>>>>> boxes, the mlx5 card has 55 channels (aka queues), so when the test program
>>>>> binds only to channel 0, nothing works as expected, since not all traffic
>>>>> is being intercepted.  While obvious in hindsight, this took a while to
>>>>> track down.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, agreed. You are not the first one to stumble upon this problem
>>>> :-). Let me think a little bit on how to solve this in a good way. We
>>>> need this to be simple and intuitive, as you say.
>>>
>>> I see people hitting this with AF_XDP all the time... I had some
>>> backup-slides[2] in our FOSDEM presentation[1] that describe the issue,
>>> give the performance reason why and propose a workaround.
>>
>> Magnus, I presume you're going to address this for the initial libbpf merge
>> since the plan is to make it easier to consume for users?
> 
> I think the first thing we need is education and documentation. Have a
> FAQ or "common mistakes" section in the Documentation. And of course,
> sending Jesper around the world reminding people about this ;-).
> 
> To address this on a libbpf interface level, I think the best way is
> to reprogram the NIC to send all traffic to the queue that you
> provided in the xsk_socket__create call. This "set up NIC routing"
> behavior can then be disable with a flag, just as the XDP program
> loading can be disabled. The standard config of xsk_socket__create
> will then set up as many things for the user as possible just to get
> up and running quickly. More advanced users can then disable parts of
> it to gain more flexibility. Does this sound OK? Do not want to go the
> route of polling multiple sockets and aggregating the traffic as this
> will have significant negative performance implications.

I think that is fine, I would probably make this one a dedicated API call
in order to have some more flexibility than just simple flag. E.g. once
nfp AF_XDP support lands at some point, I could imagine that this call
resp. a drop-in replacement API call for more advanced steering could
also take an offloaded BPF prog fd, for example, which then would program
the steering on the NIC [0]. Seems at least there's enough complexity on
its own to have a dedicated API for it. Thoughts?

Thanks,
Daniel

  [0] https://patchwork.ozlabs.org/cover/910614/

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