Message-ID: <20190225173912.26b93422@shemminger-XPS-13-9360>
Date:   Mon, 25 Feb 2019 17:39:12 -0800
From:   Stephen Hemminger <stephen@...workplumber.org>
To:     si-wei liu <si-wei.liu@...cle.com>
Cc:     "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@...hat.com>,
        "Samudrala, Sridhar" <sridhar.samudrala@...el.com>,
        Siwei Liu <loseweigh@...il.com>, Jiri Pirko <jiri@...nulli.us>,
        David Miller <davem@...emloft.net>,
        Netdev <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
        virtualization@...ts.linux-foundation.org,
        virtio-dev <virtio-dev@...ts.oasis-open.org>,
        "Brandeburg, Jesse" <jesse.brandeburg@...el.com>,
        Alexander Duyck <alexander.h.duyck@...el.com>,
        Jakub Kicinski <kubakici@...pl>,
        Jason Wang <jasowang@...hat.com>, liran.alon@...cle.com
Subject: Re: [virtio-dev] Re: net_failover slave udev renaming (was Re: [RFC
 PATCH net-next v6 4/4] netvsc: refactor notifier/event handling code to use
 the bypass framework)

On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 16:58:07 -0800
si-wei liu <si-wei.liu@...cle.com> wrote:

> On 2/22/2019 7:14 AM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> > On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 11:55:11PM -0800, si-wei liu wrote:  
> >>
> >> On 2/21/2019 11:00 PM, Samudrala, Sridhar wrote:  
> >>>
> >>> On 2/21/2019 7:33 PM, si-wei liu wrote:  
> >>>>
> >>>> On 2/21/2019 5:39 PM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:  
> >>>>> On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 05:14:44PM -0800, Siwei Liu wrote:  
> >>>>>> Sorry for replying to this ancient thread. There was some remaining
> >>>>>> issue that I don't think the initial net_failover patch got addressed
> >>>>>> cleanly, see:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1815268
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The renaming of 'eth0' to 'ens4' fails because the udev userspace was
> >>>>>> not specifically writtten for such kernel automatic enslavement.
> >>>>>> Specifically, if it is a bond or team, the slave would typically get
> >>>>>> renamed *before* virtual device gets created, that's what udev can
> >>>>>> control (without getting netdev opened early by the other part of
> >>>>>> kernel) and other userspace components for e.g. initramfs,
> >>>>>> init-scripts can coordinate well in between. The in-kernel
> >>>>>> auto-enslavement of net_failover breaks this userspace convention,
> >>>>>> which don't provides a solution if user care about consistent naming
> >>>>>> on the slave netdevs specifically.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Previously this issue had been specifically called out when IFF_HIDDEN
> >>>>>> and the 1-netdev was proposed, but no one gives out a solution to this
> >>>>>> problem ever since. Please share your mind how to proceed and solve
> >>>>>> this userspace issue if netdev does not welcome a 1-netdev model.  
> >>>>> Above says:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>      there's no motivation in the systemd/udevd community at
> >>>>>      this point to refactor the rename logic and make it work well with
> >>>>>      3-netdev.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What would the fix be? Skip slave devices?
> >>>>>  
> >>>> There's nothing user can get if just skipping slave devices - the
> >>>> name is still unchanged and unpredictable e.g. eth0, or eth1 the
> >>>> next reboot, while the rest may conform to the naming scheme (ens3
> >>>> and such). There's no way one can fix this in userspace alone - when
> >>>> the failover is created the enslaved netdev was opened by the kernel
> >>>> earlier than the userspace is made aware of, and there's no
> >>>> negotiation protocol for kernel to know when userspace has done
> >>>> initial renaming of the interface. I would expect netdev list should
> >>>> at least provide the direction in general for how this can be
> >>>> solved...  
> >
> > I was just wondering what did you mean when you said
> > "refactor the rename logic and make it work well with 3-netdev" -
> > was there a proposal udev rejected?  
> No. I never believed this particular issue can be fixed in userspace 
> alone. Previously someone had said it could be, but I never see any work 
> or relevant discussion ever happened in various userspace communities 
> (for e.g. dracut, initramfs-tools, systemd, udev, and NetworkManager). 
> IMHO the root of the issue derives from the kernel, it makes more sense 
> to start from netdev, work out and decide on a solution: see what can be 
> done in the kernel in order to fix it, then after that engage userspace 
> community for the feasibility...
> 
> > Anyway, can we write a time diagram for what happens in which order that
> > leads to failure?  That would help look for triggers that we can tie
> > into, or add new ones.
> >  
> 
> See attached diagram.
> 
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >>> Is there an issue if slave device names are not predictable? The user/admin scripts are expected
> >>> to only work with the master failover device.  
> >> Where does this expectation come from?
> >>
> >> Admin users may have ethtool or tc configurations that need to deal with
> >> predictable interface name. Third-party app which was built upon specifying
> >> certain interface name can't be modified to chase dynamic names.
> >>
> >> Specifically, we have pre-canned image that uses ethtool to fine tune VF
> >> offload settings post boot for specific workload. Those images won't work
> >> well if the name is constantly changing just after couple rounds of live
> >> migration.  
> > It should be possible to specify the ethtool configuration on the
> > master and have it automatically propagated to the slave.
> >
> > BTW this is something we should look at IMHO.  
> I was elaborating a few examples that the expectation and assumption 
> that user/admin scripts only deal with master failover device is 
> incorrect. It had never been taken good care of, although I did try to 
> emphasize it from the very beginning.
> 
> Basically what you said about propagating the ethtool configuration down 
> to the slave is the key pursuance of 1-netdev model. However, what I am 
> seeking now is any alternative that can also fix the specific udev 
> rename problem, before concluding that 1-netdev is the only solution. 
> Generally a 1-netdev scheme would take time to implement, while I'm 
> trying to find a way out to fix this particular naming problem under 
> 3-netdev.
> 
> >  
> >>> Moreover, you were suggesting hiding the lower slave devices anyway. There was some discussion
> >>> about moving them to a hidden network namespace so that they are not visible from the default namespace.
> >>> I looked into this sometime back, but did not find the right kernel api to create a network namespace within
> >>> kernel. If so, we could use this mechanism to simulate a 1-netdev model.  
> >> Yes, that's one possible implementation (IMHO the key is to make 1-netdev
> >> model as much transparent to a real NIC as possible, while a hidden netns is
> >> just the vehicle). However, I recall there was resistance around this
> >> discussion that even the concept of hiding itself is a taboo for Linux
> >> netdev. I would like to summon potential alternatives before concluding
> >> 1-netdev is the only solution too soon.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> -Siwei  
> > Your scripts would not work at all then, right?  
> At this point we don't claim images with such usage as SR-IOV live 
> migrate-able. We would flag it as live migrate-able until this ethtool 
> config issue is fully addressed and a transparent live migration 
> solution emerges in upstream eventually.

The hyper-v netvsc with 1-dev model uses a timeout to allow  udev to do its rename.
I proposed a patch to key state change off of the udev rename, but that patch was
rejected.

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