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Date:   Mon, 25 Feb 2019 21:08:23 -0500
From:   "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@...hat.com>
To:     si-wei liu <si-wei.liu@...cle.com>
Cc:     "Samudrala, Sridhar" <sridhar.samudrala@...el.com>,
        Siwei Liu <loseweigh@...il.com>, Jiri Pirko <jiri@...nulli.us>,
        Stephen Hemminger <stephen@...workplumber.org>,
        David Miller <davem@...emloft.net>,
        Netdev <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
        virtualization@...ts.linux-foundation.org,
        virtio-dev <virtio-dev@...ts.oasis-open.org>,
        "Brandeburg, Jesse" <jesse.brandeburg@...el.com>,
        Alexander Duyck <alexander.h.duyck@...el.com>,
        Jakub Kicinski <kubakici@...pl>,
        Jason Wang <jasowang@...hat.com>, liran.alon@...cle.com
Subject: Re: [virtio-dev] Re: net_failover slave udev renaming (was Re: [RFC
 PATCH net-next v6 4/4] netvsc: refactor notifier/event handling code to use
 the bypass framework)

On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 04:58:07PM -0800, si-wei liu wrote:
> 
> 
> On 2/22/2019 7:14 AM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> > On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 11:55:11PM -0800, si-wei liu wrote:
> > > 
> > > On 2/21/2019 11:00 PM, Samudrala, Sridhar wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > On 2/21/2019 7:33 PM, si-wei liu wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > On 2/21/2019 5:39 PM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> > > > > > On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 05:14:44PM -0800, Siwei Liu wrote:
> > > > > > > Sorry for replying to this ancient thread. There was some remaining
> > > > > > > issue that I don't think the initial net_failover patch got addressed
> > > > > > > cleanly, see:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1815268
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > The renaming of 'eth0' to 'ens4' fails because the udev userspace was
> > > > > > > not specifically writtten for such kernel automatic enslavement.
> > > > > > > Specifically, if it is a bond or team, the slave would typically get
> > > > > > > renamed *before* virtual device gets created, that's what udev can
> > > > > > > control (without getting netdev opened early by the other part of
> > > > > > > kernel) and other userspace components for e.g. initramfs,
> > > > > > > init-scripts can coordinate well in between. The in-kernel
> > > > > > > auto-enslavement of net_failover breaks this userspace convention,
> > > > > > > which don't provides a solution if user care about consistent naming
> > > > > > > on the slave netdevs specifically.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Previously this issue had been specifically called out when IFF_HIDDEN
> > > > > > > and the 1-netdev was proposed, but no one gives out a solution to this
> > > > > > > problem ever since. Please share your mind how to proceed and solve
> > > > > > > this userspace issue if netdev does not welcome a 1-netdev model.
> > > > > > Above says:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >      there's no motivation in the systemd/udevd community at
> > > > > >      this point to refactor the rename logic and make it work well with
> > > > > >      3-netdev.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > What would the fix be? Skip slave devices?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > There's nothing user can get if just skipping slave devices - the
> > > > > name is still unchanged and unpredictable e.g. eth0, or eth1 the
> > > > > next reboot, while the rest may conform to the naming scheme (ens3
> > > > > and such). There's no way one can fix this in userspace alone - when
> > > > > the failover is created the enslaved netdev was opened by the kernel
> > > > > earlier than the userspace is made aware of, and there's no
> > > > > negotiation protocol for kernel to know when userspace has done
> > > > > initial renaming of the interface. I would expect netdev list should
> > > > > at least provide the direction in general for how this can be
> > > > > solved...
> > 
> > I was just wondering what did you mean when you said
> > "refactor the rename logic and make it work well with 3-netdev" -
> > was there a proposal udev rejected?
> No. I never believed this particular issue can be fixed in userspace alone.
> Previously someone had said it could be, but I never see any work or
> relevant discussion ever happened in various userspace communities (for e.g.
> dracut, initramfs-tools, systemd, udev, and NetworkManager). IMHO the root
> of the issue derives from the kernel, it makes more sense to start from
> netdev, work out and decide on a solution: see what can be done in the
> kernel in order to fix it, then after that engage userspace community for
> the feasibility...
> 
> > Anyway, can we write a time diagram for what happens in which order that
> > leads to failure?  That would help look for triggers that we can tie
> > into, or add new ones.
> > 
> 
> See attached diagram.
> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > > Is there an issue if slave device names are not predictable? The user/admin scripts are expected
> > > > to only work with the master failover device.
> > > Where does this expectation come from?
> > > 
> > > Admin users may have ethtool or tc configurations that need to deal with
> > > predictable interface name. Third-party app which was built upon specifying
> > > certain interface name can't be modified to chase dynamic names.
> > > 
> > > Specifically, we have pre-canned image that uses ethtool to fine tune VF
> > > offload settings post boot for specific workload. Those images won't work
> > > well if the name is constantly changing just after couple rounds of live
> > > migration.
> > It should be possible to specify the ethtool configuration on the
> > master and have it automatically propagated to the slave.
> > 
> > BTW this is something we should look at IMHO.
> I was elaborating a few examples that the expectation and assumption that
> user/admin scripts only deal with master failover device is incorrect. It
> had never been taken good care of, although I did try to emphasize it from
> the very beginning.
> 
> Basically what you said about propagating the ethtool configuration down to
> the slave is the key pursuance of 1-netdev model. However, what I am seeking
> now is any alternative that can also fix the specific udev rename problem,
> before concluding that 1-netdev is the only solution. Generally a 1-netdev
> scheme would take time to implement, while I'm trying to find a way out to
> fix this particular naming problem under 3-netdev.
> 
> > 
> > > > Moreover, you were suggesting hiding the lower slave devices anyway. There was some discussion
> > > > about moving them to a hidden network namespace so that they are not visible from the default namespace.
> > > > I looked into this sometime back, but did not find the right kernel api to create a network namespace within
> > > > kernel. If so, we could use this mechanism to simulate a 1-netdev model.
> > > Yes, that's one possible implementation (IMHO the key is to make 1-netdev
> > > model as much transparent to a real NIC as possible, while a hidden netns is
> > > just the vehicle). However, I recall there was resistance around this
> > > discussion that even the concept of hiding itself is a taboo for Linux
> > > netdev. I would like to summon potential alternatives before concluding
> > > 1-netdev is the only solution too soon.
> > > 
> > > Thanks,
> > > -Siwei
> > Your scripts would not work at all then, right?
> At this point we don't claim images with such usage as SR-IOV live
> migrate-able. We would flag it as live migrate-able until this ethtool
> config issue is fully addressed and a transparent live migration solution
> emerges in upstream eventually.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> -Siwei
> > 
> > 
> > > > > -Siwei
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: virtio-dev-unsubscribe@...ts.oasis-open.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: virtio-dev-help@...ts.oasis-open.org
> > 
> 

> 
>   net_failover(kernel)                            |    network.service (user)    |          systemd-udevd (user)
> --------------------------------------------------+------------------------------+--------------------------------------------
> (standby virtio-net and net_failover              |                              |
> devices created and initialized,                  |                              |
> i.e. virtnet_probe()->                            |                              |
>        net_failover_create()                      |                              |
> was done.)                                        |                              |
>                                                   |                              |
>                                                   |  runs `ifup ens3' ->         |
>                                                   |    ip link set dev ens3 up   |
> net_failover_open()                               |                              |
>   dev_open(virtnet_dev)                           |                              |
>     virtnet_open(virtnet_dev)                     |                              |
>   netif_carrier_on(failover_dev)                  |                              |
>   ...                                             |                              |
>                                                   |                              |
> (VF hot plugged in)                               |                              |
> ixgbevf_probe()                                   |                              |
>  register_netdev(ixgbevf_netdev)                  |                              |
>   netdev_register_kobject(ixgbevf_netdev)         |                              |
>    kobject_add(ixgbevf_dev)                       |                              |
>     device_add(ixgbevf_dev)                       |                              |
>      kobject_uevent(&ixgbevf_dev->kobj, KOBJ_ADD) |                              |
>       netlink_broadcast()                         |                              |
>   ...                                             |                              |
>   call_netdevice_notifiers(NETDEV_REGISTER)       |                              |
>    failover_event(..., NETDEV_REGISTER, ...)      |                              |
>     failover_slave_register(ixgbevf_netdev)       |                              |
>      net_failover_slave_register(ixgbevf_netdev)  |                              |
>       dev_open(ixgbevf_netdev)                    |                              |
>                                                   |                              |
>                                                   |                              |
>                                                   |                              |   received ADD uevent from netlink fd
>                                                   |                              |   ...
>                                                   |                              |   udev-builtin-net_id.c:dev_pci_slot()
>                                                   |                              |   (decided to renamed 'eth0' )
>                                                   |                              |     ip link set dev eth0 name ens4
> (dev_change_name() returns -EBUSY as              |                              |
> ixgbevf_netdev->flags has IFF_UP)                 |                              |
>                                                   |                              |
> 

Given renaming slaves does not work anyway: would it work if we just
hard-coded slave names instead?

E.g.
1. fail slave renames
2. rename of failover to XX automatically renames standby to XXnsby
   and primary to XXnpry


-- 
MST

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