Date:   Tue, 16 Apr 2019 16:48:34 +0200
From:   Jesper Dangaard Brouer <brouer@...hat.com>
To:     "Jonathan Lemon" <jonathan.lemon@...il.com>
Cc:     "Björn Töpel" <bjorn.topel@...el.com>,
        " Björn Töpel" <bjorn.topel@...il.com>,
        ilias.apalodimas@...aro.org, toke@...hat.com,
        magnus.karlsson@...el.com, maciej.fijalkowski@...el.com,
        "Jason Wang" <jasowang@...hat.com>,
        "Alexei Starovoitov" <ast@...com>,
        "Daniel Borkmann" <borkmann@...earbox.net>,
        "Jakub Kicinski" <jakub.kicinski@...ronome.com>,
        "John Fastabend" <john.fastabend@...il.com>,
        "David Miller" <davem@...emloft.net>,
        "Andy Gospodarek" <andy@...yhouse.net>, netdev@...r.kernel.org,
        bpf@...r.kernel.org, "Thomas Graf" <tgraf@...g.ch>,
        "Thomas Monjalon" <thomas@...jalon.net>, brouer@...hat.com
Subject: Re: Per-queue XDP programs, thoughts

On Mon, 15 Apr 2019 10:58:07 -0700
"Jonathan Lemon" <jonathan.lemon@...il.com> wrote:

> On 15 Apr 2019, at 9:32, Jesper Dangaard Brouer wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, 15 Apr 2019 13:59:03 +0200 Björn Töpel 
> > <bjorn.topel@...el.com> wrote:
> >  
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> As you probably can derive from the amount of time this is taking, 
> >> I'm
> >> not really satisfied with the design of per-queue XDP program. (That,
> >> plus I'm a terribly slow hacker... ;-)) I'll try to expand my 
> >> thinking
> >> in this mail!
> >>
> >> Beware, it's kind of a long post, and it's all over the place.  
> >
> > Cc'ing all the XDP-maintainers (and netdev).
> >  
> >> There are a number of ways of setting up flows in the kernel, e.g.
> >>
> >> * Connecting/accepting a TCP socket (in-band)
> >> * Using tc-flower (out-of-band)
> >> * ethtool (out-of-band)
> >> * ...
> >>
> >> The first acts on sockets, the second on netdevs. Then there's 
> >> ethtool
> >> to configure RSS, and the RSS-on-steriods rxhash/ntuple that can 
> >> steer
> >> to queues. Most users care about sockets and netdevices. Queues is
> >> more of an implementation detail of Rx or for QoS on the Tx side.  
> >
> > Let me first acknowledge that the current Linux tools to administrator
> > HW filters is lacking (well sucks).  We know the hardware is capable,
> > as DPDK have an full API for this called rte_flow[1]. If nothing else
> > you/we can use the DPDK API to create a program to configure the
> > hardware, examples here[2]
> >
> >  [1] https://doc.dpdk.org/guides/prog_guide/rte_flow.html
> >  [2] https://doc.dpdk.org/guides/howto/rte_flow.html
> >  
> >> XDP is something that we can attach to a netdevice. Again, very
> >> natural from a user perspective. As for XDP sockets, the current
> >> mechanism is that we attach to an existing netdevice queue. Ideally
> >> what we'd like is to *remove* the queue concept. A better approach
> >> would be creating the socket and set it up -- but not binding it to a
> >> queue. Instead just binding it to a netdevice (or crazier just
> >> creating a socket without a netdevice).  
> >
> > Let me just remind everybody that the AF_XDP performance gains comes
> > from binding the resource, which allow for lock-free semantics, as
> > explained here[3].
> >
> > [3] 
> > https://github.com/xdp-project/xdp-tutorial/tree/master/advanced03-AF_XDP#where-does-af_xdp-performance-come-from
> >
> >  
> >> The socket is an endpoint, where I'd like data to end up (or get sent
> >> from). If the kernel can attach the socket to a hardware queue,
> >> there's zerocopy if not, copy-mode. Dito for Tx.  
> >
> > Well XDP programs per RXQ is just a building block to achieve this.
> >
> > As Van Jacobson explain[4], sockets or applications "register" a
> > "transport signature", and gets back a "channel".   In our case, the
> > netdev-global XDP program is our way to register/program these 
> > transport
> > signatures and redirect (e.g. into the AF_XDP socket).
> > This requires some work in software to parse and match transport
> > signatures to sockets.  The XDP programs per RXQ is a way to get
> > hardware to perform this filtering for us.
> >
> >  [4] http://www.lemis.com/grog/Documentation/vj/lca06vj.pdf
> >
> >  
> >> Does a user (control plane) want/need to care about queues? Just
> >> create a flow to a socket (out-of-band or inband) or to a netdevice
> >> (out-of-band).  
> >
> > A userspace "control-plane" program, could hide the setup and use what
> > the system/hardware can provide of optimizations.  VJ[4] e.g. suggest
> > that the "listen" socket first register the transport signature (with
> > the driver) on "accept()".   If the HW supports DPDK-rte_flow API we
> > can register a 5-tuple (or create TC-HW rules) and load our
> > "transport-signature" XDP prog on the queue number we choose.  If not,
> > when our netdev-global XDP prog need a hash-table with 5-tuple and do
> > 5-tuple parsing.
> >
> > Creating netdevices via HW filter into queues is an interesting idea.
> > DPDK have an example here[5], on how to per flow (via ethtool filter
> > setup even!) send packets to queues, that endup in SRIOV devices.
> >
> >  [5] https://doc.dpdk.org/guides/howto/flow_bifurcation.html
> >
> >  
> >> Do we envison any other uses for per-queue XDP other than AF_XDP? If
> >> not, it would make *more* sense to attach the XDP program to the
> >> socket (e.g. if the endpoint would like to use kernel data structures
> >> via XDP).  
> >
> > As demonstrated in [5] you can use (ethtool) hardware filters to
> > redirect packets into VFs (Virtual Functions).
> >
> > I also want us to extend XDP to allow for redirect from a PF (Physical
> > Function) into a VF (Virtual Function).  First the netdev-global
> > XDP-prog need to support this (maybe extend xdp_rxq_info with PF + VF
> > info).  Next configure HW filter to queue# and load XDP prog on that
> > queue# that only "redirect" to a single VF.  Now if driver+HW supports
> > it, it can "eliminate" the per-queue XDP-prog and do everything in HW.  
> 
> One thing I'd like to see is have RSS distribute incoming traffic
> across a set of queues.  The application would open a set of xsk's
> which are bound to those queues.

Yes. (Some) NIC hardware does support this RSS distribute incoming
traffic across a set of queues.  As you can see in [5] they have an
example of this:

 testpmd> flow isolate 0 true
 testpmd> flow create 0 ingress pattern eth / ipv4 / udp / vxlan vni is 42 / end \
          actions rss queues 0 1 2 3 end / end


> I'm not seeing how a transport signature would achieve this.  The
> current tooling seems to treat the queue as the basic building block,
> which seems generally appropriate.

After creating N-queue that your RSS-hash distribute over, I imagine
that you load your per-queue XDP program on each of these N-queues.  I
don't necessarily see a need for the kernel API to expose to userspace
a API/facility to load an XDP-prog on N-queue in-one-go (you can just
iterate over them).

 
> Whittling things down (receiving packets only for a specific flow)
> could be achieved by creating a queue which only contains those
> packets which atched via some form of classification (or perhaps
> steered to a VF device), aka [5] above.   Exposing multiple queues
> allows load distribution for those apps which care about it.

-- 
Best regards,
  Jesper Dangaard Brouer
  MSc.CS, Principal Kernel Engineer at Red Hat
  LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/brouer

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