netdev - Re: [PATCH net-next v2 0/3] VGT+ support

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Date:   Wed, 6 Nov 2019 22:21:37 +0000
From:   Saeed Mahameed <saeedm@...lanox.com>
To:     "jakub.kicinski@...ronome.com" <jakub.kicinski@...ronome.com>
CC:     "sbrivio@...hat.com" <sbrivio@...hat.com>,
        "nikolay@...ulusnetworks.com" <nikolay@...ulusnetworks.com>,
        "dsahern@...il.com" <dsahern@...il.com>,
        "sd@...asysnail.net" <sd@...asysnail.net>,
        Jiri Pirko <jiri@...lanox.com>,
        "netdev@...r.kernel.org" <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
        "stephen@...workplumber.org" <stephen@...workplumber.org>,
        Ariel Levkovich <lariel@...lanox.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH net-next v2 0/3] VGT+ support

On Tue, 2019-11-05 at 17:38 -0800, Jakub Kicinski wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 23:48:15 +0000, Saeed Mahameed wrote:
> > On Tue, 2019-11-05 at 15:10 -0800, Jakub Kicinski wrote:
> > > But switchdev _is_ _here_. _Today_. From uAPI perspective it's
> > > done,
> > > and ready. We're missing the driver and user space parts, but no
> > > core
> > > and uAPI extensions. It's just L2 switching and there's quite a
> > > few
> > > switch drivers upstream, as I'm sure you know :/ 
> > 
> > I can say the same about netlink, it also was there, the missing
> > part
> > was the netlink ethtool connection and userspace parts .. 
> 
> uAPI is the part that matters. No driver implements all the APIs. 
> I'm telling you that the API for what you're trying to configure
> already exists, and your driver should use it. Driver's technical 
> debt is not my concern.
> 
> > Just because switchdev uAPI is powerful enough to do anything it
> > doesn't mean we are ready, you said it, user space and drivers are
> > not
> > ready, and frankly it is not on the road map, 
> 
> I bet it's not on the road map. Product marketing sees only legacy
> SR-IOV (table stakes) and OvS offload == switchdev (value add). 
> L2 switchdev will never be implemented with that mind set.
> 
> In the upstream community, however, we care about the technical
> aspects.
> 
> > and we all know that it could take years before we can sit back and
> > relax that we got our L2 switching .. 
> 
> Let's not be dramatic. It shouldn't take years to implement basic L2
> switching offload.
> 
> > Just like what is happening now with ethtool, it been years you
> > know..
> 
> Exactly my point!!! Nobody is going to lift a finger unless there is
> a
> loud and resounding "no".
> 

Ok then, "no" new uAPI, although i still think there should be some
special cases to be allowed, but ... your call.

In the meanwhile i will figure out something to be driver only as
intermediate solution until we have full l2 offload, then i can ask
every one to move to full switchdev mode with a press of a button.