netdev - Re: [RFC PATCH v2 bpf-next 00/15] xdp

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Message-ID: <c96d99ce-5fdd-dfa5-f013-ce11c6c8cfda@gmail.com>
Date:   Mon, 25 Nov 2019 19:18:23 +0900
From:   Toshiaki Makita <toshiaki.makita1@...il.com>
To:     Toke Høiland-Jørgensen <toke@...hat.com>,
        John Fastabend <john.fastabend@...il.com>,
        Alexei Starovoitov <ast@...nel.org>,
        Daniel Borkmann <daniel@...earbox.net>,
        Martin KaFai Lau <kafai@...com>,
        Song Liu <songliubraving@...com>, Yonghong Song <yhs@...com>,
        "David S. Miller" <davem@...emloft.net>,
        Jakub Kicinski <jakub.kicinski@...ronome.com>,
        Jesper Dangaard Brouer <hawk@...nel.org>,
        Jamal Hadi Salim <jhs@...atatu.com>,
        Cong Wang <xiyou.wangcong@...il.com>,
        Jiri Pirko <jiri@...nulli.us>,
        Pablo Neira Ayuso <pablo@...filter.org>,
        Jozsef Kadlecsik <kadlec@...filter.org>,
        Florian Westphal <fw@...len.de>,
        Pravin B Shelar <pshelar@....org>
Cc:     netdev@...r.kernel.org, bpf@...r.kernel.org,
        William Tu <u9012063@...il.com>,
        Stanislav Fomichev <sdf@...ichev.me>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v2 bpf-next 00/15] xdp_flow: Flow offload to XDP

On 2019/11/22 20:54, Toke Høiland-Jørgensen wrote:
> Toshiaki Makita <toshiaki.makita1@...il.com> writes:
> 
>> On 2019/11/18 19:20, Toke Høiland-Jørgensen wrote:
>>> Toshiaki Makita <toshiaki.makita1@...il.com> writes:
>>>
>>> [... trimming the context a bit ...]
>>>
>>>>>>> Take your example of TC rules: You were proposing a flow like this:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Userspace TC rule -> kernel rule table -> eBPF map -> generated XDP
>>>>>>> program
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Whereas what I mean is that we could do this instead:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Userspace TC rule -> kernel rule table
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and separately
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> XDP program -> bpf helper -> lookup in kernel rule table
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks, now I see what you mean.
>>>>>> You expect an XDP program like this, right?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> int xdp_tc(struct xdp_md *ctx)
>>>>>> {
>>>>>> 	int act = bpf_xdp_tc_filter(ctx);
>>>>>> 	return act;
>>>>>> }
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, basically, except that the XDP program would need to parse the
>>>>> packet first, and bpf_xdp_tc_filter() would take a parameter struct with
>>>>> the parsed values. See the usage of bpf_fib_lookup() in
>>>>> bpf/samples/xdp_fwd_kern.c
>>>>>
>>>>>> But doesn't this way lose a chance to reduce/minimize the program to
>>>>>> only use necessary features for this device?
>>>>>
>>>>> Not necessarily. Since the BPF program does the packet parsing and fills
>>>>> in the TC filter lookup data structure, it can limit what features are
>>>>> used that way (e.g., if I only want to do IPv6, I just parse the v6
>>>>> header, ignore TCP/UDP, and drop everything that's not IPv6). The lookup
>>>>> helper could also have a flag argument to disable some of the lookup
>>>>> features.
>>>>
>>>> It's unclear to me how to configure that.
>>>> Use options when attaching the program? Something like
>>>> $ xdp_tc attach eth0 --only-with ipv6
>>>> But can users always determine their necessary features in advance?
>>>
>>> That's what I'm doing with xdp-filter now. But the answer to your second
>>> question is likely to be 'probably not', so it would be good to not have
>>> to do this :)
>>>
>>>> Frequent manual reconfiguration when TC rules frequently changes does
>>>> not sound nice. Or, add hook to kernel to listen any TC filter event
>>>> on some daemon and automatically reload the attached program?
>>>
>>> Doesn't have to be a kernel hook; we could enhance the userspace tooling
>>> to do it. Say we integrate it into 'tc':
>>>
>>> - Add a new command 'tc xdp_accel enable <iface> --features [ipv6,etc]'
>>> - When adding new rules, add the following logic:
>>>     - Check if XDP acceleration is enabled
>>>     - If it is, check whether the rule being added fits into the current
>>>       'feature set' loaded on that interface.
>>>       - If the rule needs more features, reload the XDP program to one
>>>         with the needed additional features.
>>>       - Or, alternatively, just warn the user and let them manually
>>>         replace it?
>>
>> Ok, but there are other userspace tools to configure tc in wild.
>> python and golang have their own netlink library project.
>> OVS embeds TC netlink handling code in itself. There may be more tools like this.
>> I think at least we should have rtnl notification about TC and monitor it
>> from daemon, if we want to reload the program from userspace tools.
> 
> A daemon would be one way to do this in cases where it needs to be
> completely dynamic. My guess is that there are lots of environments
> where that is not required, and where a user/administrator could
> realistically specify ahead of time which feature set they want to
> enable XDP acceleration for. So in my mind the way to go about this is
> to implement the latter first, then add dynamic reconfiguration of it on
> top when (or if) it turns out to be necessary...

Hmm, but I think there is big difference between a daemon and a cli tool.
Shouldn't we determine the design considering future usage?

Toshiaki Makita