Message-ID: <f7timepu916.fsf@dhcp-25.97.bos.redhat.com>
Date:   Tue, 14 Jul 2020 16:38:29 -0400
From:   Aaron Conole <aconole@...hat.com>
To:     Numan Siddique <nusiddiq@...hat.com>
Cc:     Stefano Brivio <sbrivio@...hat.com>,
        Florian Westphal <fw@...len.de>,
        netdev <netdev@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH net-next 1/3] udp_tunnel: allow to turn off path mtu discovery on encap sockets

Numan Siddique <nusiddiq@...hat.com> writes:

> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 3:34 PM Stefano Brivio <sbrivio@...hat.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 13 Jul 2020 10:04:13 +0200
>> Florian Westphal <fw@...len.de> wrote:
>>
>> > Stefano Brivio <sbrivio@...hat.com> wrote:
>> > > Hi,
>> > >
>> > > On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 22:07:03 +0200
>> > > Florian Westphal <fw@...len.de> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > vxlan and geneve take the to-be-transmitted skb, prepend the
>> > > > encapsulation header and send the result.
>> > > >
>> > > > Neither vxlan nor geneve can do anything about a lowered path mtu
>> > > > except notifying the peer/upper dst entry.
>> > >
>> > > It could, and I think it should, update its MTU, though. I didn't
>> > > include this in the original implementation of PMTU discovery for UDP
>> > > tunnels as it worked just fine for locally generated and routed
>> > > traffic, but here we go.
>> >
>> > I don't think its a good idea to muck with network config in response
>> > to untrusted entity.
>>
>> I agree that this (changing MTU on VXLAN) looks like a further step,
>> but the practical effect is zero: we can't send those packets already
>> today.
>>
>> PMTU discovery has security impacts, and they are mentioned in the
>> RFCs. Also here, we wouldn't increase the MTU as a result, and if the
>> entity is considered untrusted, considerations from RFC 8201 and RFC
>> 4890 cover that.
>>
>> In practice, we might have broken networks, but at a practical level, I
>> guess it's enough to not make the situation any worse.
>>
>> > > As PMTU discovery happens, we have a route exception on the lower
>> > > layer for the given path, and we know that VXLAN will use that path,
>> > > so we also know there's no point in having a higher MTU on the VXLAN
>> > > device, it's really the maximum packet size we can use.
>> >
>> > No, in the setup that prompted this series the route exception is wrong.
>> > The current "fix" is a shell script that flushes the exception as soon
>> > as its added to keep the tunnel working...
>>
>> Oh, oops.
>>
>> Well, as I mentioned, if this is breaking setups and this series is the
>> only way to fix things, I have nothing against it, we can still work on
>> a more comprehensive solution (including the bridge) once we have it.
>>
>> > > > Some setups, however, will use vxlan as a bridge port (or openvs vport).
>> > >
>> > > And, on top of that, I think what we're missing on the bridge is to
>> > > update the MTU when a port lowers its MTU. The MTU is changed only as
>> > > interfaces are added, which feels like a bug. We could use the lower
>> > > layer notifier to fix this.
>> >
>> > I will defer to someone who knows bridges better but I think that
>> > in bridge case we 100% depend on a human to set everything.
>>
>> Not entirely, MTU is auto-adjusted when interfaces are added (unless
>> the user set it explicitly), however:
>>
>> > bridge might be forwarding frames of non-ip protocol and I worry that
>> > this is a self-induced DoS when we start to alter configuration behind
>> > sysadmins back.
>>
>> ...yes, I agree that the matter with the bridge is different. And we
>> don't know if that fixes anything else than the selftest I showed, so
>> let's forget about the bridge for a moment.
>>
>> > > I tried to represent the issue you're hitting with a new test case in
>> > > the pmtu.sh selftest, also included in the diff. Would that work for
>> > > Open vSwitch?
>> >
>> > No idea, I don't understand how it can work at all, we can't 'chop
>> > up'/mangle l2 frame in arbitrary fashion to somehow make them pass to
>> > the output port.  We also can't influence MTU config of the links peer.
>>
>> Sorry I didn't expand right away.
>>
>> In the test case I showed, it works because at that point sending
>> packets to the bridge will result in an error, and the (local) sender
>> fragments. Let's set this aside together with the bridge affair, though.
>>
>> Back to VXLAN and OVS: OVS implements a "check_pkt_len" action, cf.
>> commit 4d5ec89fc8d1 ("net: openvswitch: Add a new action
>> check_pkt_len"), that should be used when packets exceed link MTUs:
>>
>>   With the help of this action, OVN will check the packet length
>>   and if it is greater than the MTU size, it will generate an
>>   ICMP packet (type 3, code 4) and includes the next hop mtu in it
>>   so that the sender can fragment the packets.
>>
>> and my understanding is that this can only work if we reflect the
>> effective MTU on the device itself (including VXLAN).
>>
>
> check_pkt_len is OVS datapath action and the corresponding OVS action
> is  check_pkt_larger.
>
> Logically It is expected to use this way in the OVS flows- >
>     reg0[0] = check_pkt_larger(1500);
>     if reg0[0[ == 1; then take some action.
>
> In the case of OVN, if the register reg0[0] bit is set, then we
> generate ICMP error packet (type 3, code 4).
>
> I don't know the requirements or the issue this patch is trying to
> address. But I think for OVS, there has to be
> a controller (like OVN) which makes use of the check_pkt_larger action
> and takes necessary action by adding
> appropriate OF flows based on the result of check_pkt_larger.

Hi Numan,

The issue is that a route exception might lower the MTU for the
destination, and the controller would need to be made aware of that.

In that case, it could update any check_packet_len rules.  But it's not
desirable for this type of rules to be explicitly required at all, imo.
And for setups where user wants to use action=normal, or no openflow
controller is used (a large number of OvS deployments), I think it will
still be broken.

I've cooked up a change to OvS to correspond to this series:

https://github.com/orgcandman/ovs/commit/0c063e4443dda1f62c9310bda7f54140b9dc9c31

(I'm going to additionally modify it to default the pmtudisc=interface
 by default, and the controller/operator can set it to
 do/dont/want/etc...)

Maybe I missed something?

> Thanks
> Numan
>
>>
>> Side note: I'm not fond of the idea behind that OVS action because I
>> think it competes with the kernel (and with ICMP itself, or PLPMTUD if
>> ICMP is not an option) to do PMTU discovery.
>>
>> However, if that already works for OVS (I really don't know. Aaron,
>> Numan?), perhaps you could simply consider going with that solution...
>>
>> --
>> Stefano
>>

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