Message-ID: <CAEf4Bza4KXkVov=UwouryG5JcqYQ=9mDG8nBoWmb97rv+_yqTw@mail.gmail.com>
Date:   Tue, 4 Aug 2020 23:54:16 -0700
From:   Andrii Nakryiko <andrii.nakryiko@...il.com>
To:     Song Liu <songliubraving@...com>
Cc:     open list <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        bpf <bpf@...r.kernel.org>, Networking <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
        Alexei Starovoitov <ast@...nel.org>,
        Daniel Borkmann <daniel@...earbox.net>,
        Kernel Team <Kernel-team@...com>,
        john fastabend <john.fastabend@...il.com>,
        KP Singh <kpsingh@...omium.org>,
        Jesper Dangaard Brouer <brouer@...hat.com>,
        Daniel Xu <dlxu@...com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH bpf-next 2/5] libbpf: support BPF_PROG_TYPE_USER programs

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 11:26 PM Song Liu <songliubraving@...com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 4, 2020, at 10:32 PM, Andrii Nakryiko <andrii.nakryiko@...il.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 8:59 PM Song Liu <songliubraving@...com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Aug 4, 2020, at 6:38 PM, Andrii Nakryiko <andrii.nakryiko@...il.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 6:18 PM Song Liu <songliubraving@...com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Aug 2, 2020, at 6:40 PM, Andrii Nakryiko <andrii.nakryiko@...il.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 1:50 AM Song Liu <songliubraving@...com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> [...]
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> };
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> LIBBPF_API int bpf_prog_test_run_xattr(struct bpf_prog_test_run_attr *test_attr);
> >>>>>> diff --git a/tools/lib/bpf/libbpf.c b/tools/lib/bpf/libbpf.c
> >>>>>> index b9f11f854985b..9ce175a486214 100644
> >>>>>> --- a/tools/lib/bpf/libbpf.c
> >>>>>> +++ b/tools/lib/bpf/libbpf.c
> >>>>>> @@ -6922,6 +6922,7 @@ static const struct bpf_sec_def section_defs[] = {
> >>>>>>      BPF_PROG_SEC("lwt_out",                 BPF_PROG_TYPE_LWT_OUT),
> >>>>>>      BPF_PROG_SEC("lwt_xmit",                BPF_PROG_TYPE_LWT_XMIT),
> >>>>>>      BPF_PROG_SEC("lwt_seg6local",           BPF_PROG_TYPE_LWT_SEG6LOCAL),
> >>>>>> +       BPF_PROG_SEC("user",                    BPF_PROG_TYPE_USER),
> >>>>>
> >>>>> let's do "user/" for consistency with most other prog types (and nice
> >>>>> separation between prog type and custom user name)
> >>>>
> >>>> About "user" vs. "user/", I still think "user" is better.
> >>>>
> >>>> Unlike kprobe and tracepoint, user prog doesn't use the part after "/".
> >>>> This is similar to "perf_event" for BPF_PROG_TYPE_PERF_EVENT, "xdl" for
> >>>> BPF_PROG_TYPE_XDP, etc. If we specify "user" here, "user/" and "user/xxx"
> >>>> would also work. However, if we specify "user/" here, programs that used
> >>>> "user" by accident will fail to load, with a message like:
> >>>>
> >>>>       libbpf: failed to load program 'user'
> >>>>
> >>>> which is confusing.
> >>>
> >>> xdp, perf_event and a bunch of others don't enforce it, that's true,
> >>> they are a bit of a legacy,
> >>
> >> I don't see w/o "/" is a legacy thing. BPF_PROG_TYPE_STRUCT_OPS just uses
> >> "struct_ops".
> >>
> >>> unfortunately. But all the recent ones do,
> >>> and we explicitly did that for xdp_dev/xdp_cpu, for instance.
> >>> Specifying just "user" in the spec would allow something nonsensical
> >>> like "userargh", for instance, due to this being treated as a prefix.
> >>> There is no harm to require users to do "user/my_prog", though.
> >>
> >> I don't see why allowing "userargh" is a problem. Failing "user" is
> >> more confusing. We can probably improve that by a hint like:
> >>
> >>    libbpf: failed to load program 'user', do you mean "user/"?
> >>
> >> But it is pretty silly. "user/something_never_used" also looks weird.
> >
> > "userargh" is terrible, IMO. It's a different identifier that just
> > happens to have the first 4 letters matching "user" program type.
> > There must be either a standardized separator (which happens to be
> > '/') or none. See the suggestion below.
>
> We have no problem deal with "a different identifier that just happens
> to have the first letters matching", like xdp vs. xdp_devmap and
> xdp_cpumap, right?
>

xdp vs xdp_devmap is an entirely different thing. We deal with it by
checking xdp_devmap first. What I'm saying is that user can do
"xdpomg" and libbpf would be happy (today). And I don't think that's
good. But further, if someone does something like "xdp_devmap_omg",
guess which program type will be inferred? Hint: not xdp_devmap and
libbpf won't report an error either. All because "xdp" is so lax
today.

> >>
> >>> Alternatively, we could introduce a new convention in the spec,
> >>> something like "user?", which would accept either "user" or
> >>> "user/something", but not "user/" nor "userblah". We can try that as
> >>> well.
> >>
> >> Again, I don't really understand why allowing "userblah" is a problem.
> >> We already have "xdp", "xdp_devmap/", and "xdp_cpumap/", they all work
> >> fine so far.
> >
> > Right, we have "xdp_devmap/" and "xdp_cpumap/", as you say. I haven't
> > seen so much pushback against trailing forward slash with those ;)
>
> I haven't seen any issue with old "perf_event", "xdp" and new "struct_ops"
> either.
>
> >
> > But anyways, as part of deprecating APIs and preparing libbpf for 1.0
> > release over this half, I think I'm going to emit warnings for names
> > like "prog_type_whatever" or "prog_typeevenworse", etc. And asking
> > users to normalize section names to either "prog_type" or
> > "prog_type/something/here", whichever makes sense for a specific
> > program type.
>
> Exactly, "user" makes sense here; while "kprobe/__set_task_comm" makes
> sense for kprobe.

Right, but "userblah" doesn't. It would be great if you could help
make what I described above become true. But at least don't make it
worse by allowing unrestricted "user" prefix. I'm OK with strict
"user" or "user/blah", I'm not OK with "userblah", I'm sorry.

>
> > Right now libbpf doesn't allow two separate BPF programs
> > with the same section name, so enforcing strict "user" is limiting to
> > users. We are going to lift that restriction pretty soon, though. But
> > for now, please stick with what we've been doing lately and mark it as
> > "user/", later we'll allow just "user" as well.
>
> Since we would allow "user" later, why we have to reject it for now?

Because libbpf is dumb in that regard today? And instead of migrating
users later, I want to prevent users making bad choices right now.
Then relax it, if necessary. Alternatively, we can fix up libbpf logic
before the USER program type lands.

> Imagine the user just compiled and booted into a new kernel with user
> program support; and then got the following message:
>
>         libbpf: failed to load program 'user'
>
> If I were the user, I would definitely question whether the kernel was
> correct...

That's also bad, and again, we can make libbpf better. I think moving
forward any non-recognized BPF program type should be reported by
libbpf as an error. But we can't do it right now, we have to have a
period in which users will get a chance to update their BPF programs.
This will have to happen over few libbpf releases at least. So please
join in on the fun of fixing stuff like this.

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