netdev - Re: [PATCH v2] net: add support for threaded NAPI polling

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Date:   Thu, 6 Aug 2020 14:18:07 -0700
From:   Eric Dumazet <eric.dumazet@...il.com>
To:     Jakub Kicinski <kuba@...nel.org>,
        Eric Dumazet <eric.dumazet@...il.com>
Cc:     Felix Fietkau <nbd@....name>, netdev@...r.kernel.org,
        Hillf Danton <hdanton@...a.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2] net: add support for threaded NAPI polling



On 8/6/20 12:57 PM, Jakub Kicinski wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Aug 2020 12:25:08 -0700 Eric Dumazet wrote:
>> On 8/6/20 11:55 AM, Jakub Kicinski wrote:
>>> I'm still trying to wrap my head around this.
>>>
>>> Am I understanding correctly that you have one IRQ and multiple NAPI
>>> instances?
>>>
>>> Are we not going to end up with pretty terrible cache locality here if
>>> the scheduler starts to throw rx and tx completions around to random
>>> CPUs?
>>>
>>> I understand that implementing separate kthreads would be more LoC, but
>>> we do have ksoftirqs already... maybe we should make the NAPI ->
>>> ksoftirq mapping more flexible, and improve the logic which decides to
>>> load ksoftirq rather than make $current() pay?
>>>
>>> Sorry for being slow.
>>
>> Issue with ksoftirqd is that
>> - it is bound to a cpu
> 
> Do you envision the scheduler balancing or work stealing being
> advantageous in some configurations?

It seems that softirq stealing too many cycles has been a problem
for process scheduler for a very long time. Maybe dealing with threads
will help it to take decisions instead of having to deal with
interruptions.

> 
> I was guessing that for compute workloads having ksoftirq bound will
> actually make things more predictable/stable.
> 
> For pure routers (where we expect multiple cores to reach 100% just
> doing packet forwarding) as long as there is an API to re-balance NAPIs
> to cores - a simple specialized user space daemon would probably do a
> better job as it can consult packet drop metrics etc.
> 
> Obviously I have no data to back up these claims..
> 
>> - Its nice value is 0, meaning that user threads can sometime compete too much with it.
> 
> True, I thought we could assume user level tuning.
> 
>> - It handles all kinds of softirqs, so messing with it might hurt some other layer.
> 
> Right, I have no data on how much this hurts in practice.
> 
>> Note that the patch is using a dedicate work queue. It is going to be not practical
>> in case you need to handle two different NIC, and want separate pools for each of them.
>>
>> Ideally, having one kthread per queue would be nice, but then there is more plumbing
>> work to let these kthreads being visible in a convenient way (/sys/class/net/ethX/queues/..../kthread)
> 
> Is context switching cost negligible?

Context switch to kernel thread is cheap (compared to arbitrary context switch,
from process A to process B since), no MMU games need to be played.