netdev - Re: [PATCH v3 00/14] Adding GAUDI NIC code to habanalabs driver

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Message-ID: <20200919172730.GC2733595@kroah.com>
Date:   Sat, 19 Sep 2020 19:27:30 +0200
From:   Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>
To:     Oded Gabbay <oded.gabbay@...il.com>
Cc:     Leon Romanovsky <leon@...nel.org>,
        Gal Pressman <galpress@...zon.com>,
        Jason Gunthorpe <jgg@...pe.ca>,
        Jakub Kicinski <kuba@...nel.org>,
        "Linux-Kernel@...r. Kernel. Org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        netdev@...r.kernel.org, SW_Drivers <SW_Drivers@...ana.ai>,
        "David S. Miller" <davem@...emloft.net>,
        Andrew Lunn <andrew@...n.ch>,
        Florian Fainelli <f.fainelli@...il.com>,
        linux-rdma@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 00/14] Adding GAUDI NIC code to habanalabs driver

On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 07:43:28PM +0300, Oded Gabbay wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 11:30 AM Greg Kroah-Hartman
> <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org> wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 11:20:03AM +0300, Leon Romanovsky wrote:
> > > On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 08:40:20AM +0200, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote:
> > > > On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 03:19:05PM +0300, Leon Romanovsky wrote:
> > > > > > So we do have an open-source library called hl-thunk, which uses our
> > > > > > driver and indeed that was part of the requirement.
> > > > > > It is similar to libdrm.
> > > > > > Here is the link:
> > > > > > https://github.com/HabanaAI/hl-thunk
> > > > >
> > > > > Are you kidding?
> > > > >
> > > > > This is mirror of some internal repository that looks like dumpster
> > > > > with ChangeId, internal bug tracker numbers, not part of major OS
> > > > > distributions.
> > > > >
> > > > > It is not open-source library and shows very clear why you chose
> > > > > to upstream your driver through driver/misc/ tree.
> > > >
> > > > It is an open source library, as per the license and the code
> > > > availability.  What more is expected here?
> > >
> > > So can I fork iproute2, add bunch of new custom netlink UAPIs and expect
> > > Dave to merge it after I throw it on github?
> >
> > Don't be silly, that's not the case here at all and you know that.
> >
> > > > No distro has to pick it up, that's not a requirement for kernel code,
> > > > we have many kernel helper programs that are not in distros.  Heck, udev
> > > > took a long time to get into distros, does that mean the kernel side of
> > > > that interface should never have been merged?
> > > >
> > > > I don't understand your complaint here, it's not our place to judge the
> > > > code quality of userspace libraries, otherwise we would never get any
> > > > real-work done :)
> > >
> > > My main complaint is that you can't imagine merging code into large
> > > subsystems (netdev, RDMA, DRM? e.t.c) without being civil open-source
> > > citizen. It means use of existing user-space libraries/tools and/or
> > > providing new ones that will be usable for everyone.
> >
> > Agreed.
> >
> > > In this case, we have some custom char device with library that is not
> > > usable for anyone else and this is why drivers/misc/ is right place.
> >
> > Also agreed.
> >
> > > While we are talking about real-work, it is our benefit to push companies
> > > to make investment into ecosystem and not letting them to find an excuse
> > > for not doing it.
> >
> > So why are you complaining about a stand-alone driver that does not have
> > any shared subsystems's userspace code to control that driver?
> >
> > Yes, when integrating into other subsystems (i.e. networking and rdma),
> > they should use those common subsystems interfaces, no one is arguing
> > that at all.
> Hi Greg,
> It's probably heresy, but why do I need to integrate into the RDMA subsystem ?
> I understand your reasoning about networking (Ethernet) as the driver
> connects to the kernel networking stack (netdev), but with RDMA the
> driver doesn't use or connect to anything in that stack. If I were to
> support IBverbs and declare that I support it, then of course I would
> need to integrate to the RDMA subsystem and add my backend to
> rdma-core.

IBverbs are horrid and I would not wish them on anyone.  Seriously.

> But we don't do that so why am I being forced to support IBverbs ?

You shouldn't.

> Forcing GAUDI to use the RDMA stack and IBverbs is like swatting flies
> with a sledgehammer.
> I do hope that in future devices we will support it natively and of
> course then we will integrate as requested, but for GAUDI it is just a
> huge overkill IMHO.

I think the general rdma apis are the key here, not the userspace api.

Note, I do not know exactly what they are, but no, IBverbs are not ok.

Ick.

greg k-h