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Date:   Sun, 13 Dec 2020 20:34:11 +0200
From:   Boris Pismenny <borispismenny@...il.com>
To:     Jakub Kicinski <kuba@...nel.org>, David Ahern <dsahern@...il.com>
Cc:     Boris Pismenny <borisp@...lanox.com>, davem@...emloft.net,
        saeedm@...dia.com, hch@....de, sagi@...mberg.me, axboe@...com,
        kbusch@...nel.org, viro@...iv.linux.org.uk, edumazet@...gle.com,
        boris.pismenny@...il.com, linux-nvme@...ts.infradead.org,
        netdev@...r.kernel.org, benishay@...dia.com, ogerlitz@...dia.com,
        yorayz@...dia.com, Ben Ben-Ishay <benishay@...lanox.com>,
        Or Gerlitz <ogerlitz@...lanox.com>,
        Yoray Zack <yorayz@...lanox.com>,
        Boris Pismenny <borisp@...dia.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v1 net-next 02/15] net: Introduce direct data placement
 tcp offload



On 11/12/2020 20:45, Jakub Kicinski wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 19:43:57 -0700 David Ahern wrote:
>> On 12/10/20 7:01 PM, Jakub Kicinski wrote:
>>> On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 21:26:05 -0700 David Ahern wrote:  
>>>> Yes, TCP is a byte stream, so the packets could very well show up like this:
>>>>
>>>>  +--------------+---------+-----------+---------+--------+-----+
>>>>  | data - seg 1 | PDU hdr | prev data | TCP hdr | IP hdr | eth |
>>>>  +--------------+---------+-----------+---------+--------+-----+
>>>>  +-----------------------------------+---------+--------+-----+
>>>>  |     payload - seg 2               | TCP hdr | IP hdr | eth |
>>>>  +-----------------------------------+---------+--------+-----+
>>>>  +-------- +-------------------------+---------+--------+-----+
>>>>  | PDU hdr |    payload - seg 3      | TCP hdr | IP hdr | eth |
>>>>  +---------+-------------------------+---------+--------+-----+
>>>>
>>>> If your hardware can extract the NVMe payload into a targeted SGL like
>>>> you want in this set, then it has some logic for parsing headers and
>>>> "snapping" an SGL to a new element. ie., it already knows 'prev data'
>>>> goes with the in-progress PDU, sees more data, recognizes a new PDU
>>>> header and a new payload. That means it already has to handle a
>>>> 'snap-to-PDU' style argument where the end of the payload closes out an
>>>> SGL element and the next PDU hdr starts in a new SGL element (ie., 'prev
>>>> data' closes out sgl[i], and the next PDU hdr starts sgl[i+1]). So in
>>>> this case, you want 'snap-to-PDU' but that could just as easily be 'no
>>>> snap at all', just a byte stream and filling an SGL after the protocol
>>>> headers.  
>>>
>>> This 'snap-to-PDU' requirement is something that I don't understand
>>> with the current TCP zero copy. In case of, say, a storage application  
>>
>> current TCP zero-copy does not handle this and it can't AFAIK. I believe
>> it requires hardware level support where an Rx queue is dedicated to a
>> flow / socket and some degree of header and payload splitting (header is
>> consumed by the kernel stack and payload goes to socket owner's memory).
> 
> Yet, Google claims to use the RX ZC in production, and with a CX3 Pro /
> mlx4 NICs.
> 
> Simple workaround that comes to mind is have the headers and payloads
> on separate TCP streams. That doesn't seem too slick.. but neither is
> the 4k MSS, so maybe that's what Google does?
> 
>>> which wants to send some headers (whatever RPC info, block number,
>>> etc.) and then a 4k block of data - how does the RX side get just the
>>> 4k block a into a page so it can zero copy it out to its storage device?
>>>
>>> Per-connection state in the NIC, and FW parsing headers is one way,
>>> but I wonder how this record split problem is best resolved generically.
>>> Perhaps by passing hints in the headers somehow?
>>>
>>> Sorry for the slight off-topic :)
>>>   
>> Hardware has to be parsing the incoming packets to find the usual
>> ethernet/IP/TCP headers and TCP payload offset. Then the hardware has to
>> have some kind of ULP processor to know how to parse the TCP byte stream
>> at least well enough to find the PDU header and interpret it to get pdu
>> header length and payload length.
> 
> The big difference between normal headers and L7 headers is that one is
> at ~constant offset, self-contained, and always complete (PDU header
> can be split across segments).
> 
> Edwin Peer did an implementation of TLS ULP for the NFP, it was
> complex. Not to mention it's L7 protocol ossification.
> 

Some programability on the PDU header parsing part will resolve the
ossification, and AFAICT the interfaces in the kernel do not ossify the
protocols. 

> To put it bluntly maybe it's fine for smaller shops but I'm guessing
> it's going to be a hard sell to hyperscalers and people who don't like
> to be locked in to HW.
> 
>> At that point you push the protocol headers (eth/ip/tcp) into one buffer
>> for the kernel stack protocols and put the payload into another. The
>> former would be some page owned by the OS and the latter owned by the
>> process / socket (generically, in this case it is a kernel level
>> socket). In addition, since the payload is spread across multiple
>> packets the hardware has to keep track of TCP sequence number and its
>> current place in the SGL where it is writing the payload to keep the
>> bytes contiguous and detect out-of-order.
>>
>> If the ULP processor knows about PDU headers it knows when enough
>> payload has been found to satisfy that PDU in which case it can tell the
>> cursor to move on to the next SGL element (or separate SGL). That's what
>> I meant by 'snap-to-PDU'.
>>
>> Alternatively, if it is any random application with a byte stream not
>> understood by hardware, the cursor just keeps moving along the SGL
>> elements assigned it for this particular flow.
>>
>> If you have a socket whose payload is getting offloaded to its own queue
>> (which this set is effectively doing), you can create the queue with
>> some attribute that says 'NVMe ULP', 'iscsi ULP', 'just a byte stream'
>> that controls the parsing when you stop writing to one SGL element and
>> move on to the next. Again, assuming hardware support for such attributes.
>>
>> I don't work for Nvidia, so this is all supposition based on what the
>> patches are doing.
> 
> Ack, these patches are not exciting (to me), so I'm wondering if there
> is a better way. The only reason NIC would have to understand a ULP for
> ZC is to parse out header/message lengths. There's gotta be a way to
> pass those in header options or such...
> 
> And, you know, if we figure something out - maybe we stand a chance
> against having 4 different zero copy implementations (this, TCP,
> AF_XDP, netgpu) :(
> 

As stated on another thread here. Simply splitting header and data
while also placing payload at some socket buffer address is zerocopy
but not data placement. The latter handles PDU reordering. I think
that it is unjust to place them all in the same category.

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