netdev - Re: [PATCH v2 bpf-next 1/4] bpf: introduce task_vma bpf

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Date:   Tue, 5 Jan 2021 19:51:07 +0000
From:   Song Liu <songliubraving@...com>
To:     Alexei Starovoitov <alexei.starovoitov@...il.com>
CC:     Yonghong Song <yhs@...com>,
        "bpf@...r.kernel.org" <bpf@...r.kernel.org>,
        "netdev@...r.kernel.org" <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
        "ast@...nel.org" <ast@...nel.org>,
        "daniel@...earbox.net" <daniel@...earbox.net>,
        "andrii@...nel.org" <andrii@...nel.org>,
        "john.fastabend@...il.com" <john.fastabend@...il.com>,
        "kpsingh@...omium.org" <kpsingh@...omium.org>,
        Kernel Team <Kernel-team@...com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 bpf-next 1/4] bpf: introduce task_vma bpf_iter



> On Jan 5, 2021, at 11:46 AM, Alexei Starovoitov <alexei.starovoitov@...il.com> wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Jan 05, 2021 at 07:38:08PM +0000, Song Liu wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 5, 2021, at 9:27 AM, Alexei Starovoitov <alexei.starovoitov@...il.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 9:11 AM Song Liu <songliubraving@...com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 5, 2021, at 8:27 AM, Alexei Starovoitov <alexei.starovoitov@...il.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 9:47 PM Song Liu <songliubraving@...com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jan 4, 2021, at 5:46 PM, Alexei Starovoitov <alexei.starovoitov@...il.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 05:23:25PM +0000, Song Liu wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 18, 2020, at 8:38 AM, Yonghong Song <yhs@...com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 12/17/20 9:23 PM, Alexei Starovoitov wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 8:33 PM Song Liu <songliubraving@...com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> ahh. I missed that. Makes sense.
>>>>>>>>>>>> vm_file needs to be accurate, but vm_area_struct should be accessed as ptr_to_btf_id.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Passing pointer of vm_area_struct into BPF will be tricky. For example, shall we
>>>>>>>>>>> allow the user to access vma->vm_file? IIUC, with ptr_to_btf_id the verifier will
>>>>>>>>>>> allow access of vma->vm_file as a valid pointer to struct file. However, since the
>>>>>>>>>>> vma might be freed, vma->vm_file could point to random data.
>>>>>>>>>> I don't think so. The proposed patch will do get_file() on it.
>>>>>>>>>> There is actually no need to assign it into a different variable.
>>>>>>>>>> Accessing it via vma->vm_file is safe and cleaner.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I did not check the code but do you have scenarios where vma is freed but old vma->vm_file is not freed due to reference counting, but
>>>>>>>>> freed vma area is reused so vma->vm_file could be garbage?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> AFAIK, once we unlock mmap_sem, the vma could be freed and reused. I guess ptr_to_btf_id
>>>>>>>> or probe_read would not help with this?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Theoretically we can hack the verifier to treat some ptr_to_btf_id as "less
>>>>>>> valid" than the other ptr_to_btf_id, but the user experience will not be great.
>>>>>>> Reading such bpf prog will not be obvious. I think it's better to run bpf prog
>>>>>>> in mmap_lock then and let it access vma->vm_file. After prog finishes the iter
>>>>>>> bit can do if (mmap_lock_is_contended()) before iterating. That will deliver
>>>>>>> better performance too. Instead of task_vma_seq_get_next() doing
>>>>>>> mmap_lock/unlock at every vma. No need for get_file() either. And no
>>>>>>> __vm_area_struct exposure.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I think there might be concern calling BPF program with mmap_lock, especially that
>>>>>> the program is sleepable (for bpf_d_path). It shouldn't be a problem for common
>>>>>> cases, but I am not 100% sure for corner cases (many instructions in BPF + sleep).
>>>>>> Current version is designed to be very safe for the workload, which might be too
>>>>>> conservative.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I know and I agree with all that, but how do you propose to fix the
>>>>> vm_file concern
>>>>> without holding the lock while prog is running? I couldn't come up with a way.
>>>> 
>>>> I guess the gap here is that I don't see why __vm_area_struct exposure is an issue.
>>>> It is similar to __sk_buff, and simpler (though we had more reasons to introduce
>>>> __sk_buff back when there wasn't BTF).
>>>> 
>>>> If we can accept __vm_area_struct, current version should work, as it doesn't have
>>>> problem with vm_file
>>> 
>>> True. The problem with __vm_area_struct is that it is a hard coded
>>> uapi with little to none
>>> extensibility. In this form vma iterator is not really useful beyond
>>> the example in selftest.
>> 
>> With __vm_area_struct, we can still probe_read the page table, so we can 
>> cover more use cases than the selftest. But I agree that it is not as
>> extensible as feeding real vm_area_struct with BTF to the BPF program. 
> 
> Another confusing thing with __vm_area_struct is vm_flags field.
> It's copied directly. As __vm_area_struct->flags this field is uapi field,
> but its contents are kernel internal. We avoided such corner cases in the past.
> When flags field is copied into uapi the kernel internal flags are encoded
> and exposed as separate uapi flags. That was the case with
> BPF_TCP_* flags. If we have to do this with vm_flags (VM_EXEC, etc) that
> might kill the patchset due to abi concerns.

This makes sense. It shouldn't be uapi without extra encoding. 

Song