Date:   Tue, 12 Oct 2021 19:31:38 +0300
From:   Ido Schimmel <idosch@...sch.org>
To:     Daniel Borkmann <daniel@...earbox.net>
Cc:     davem@...emloft.net, kuba@...nel.org, roopa@...dia.com,
        dsahern@...nel.org, m@...bda.lt, john.fastabend@...il.com,
        netdev@...r.kernel.org, bpf@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH net-next 4/4] net, neigh: Add NTF_MANAGED flag for
 managed neighbor entries

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 02:12:38PM +0200, Daniel Borkmann wrote:
> Allow a user space control plane to insert entries with a new NTF_EXT_MANAGED
> flag. The flag then indicates to the kernel that the neighbor entry should be
> periodically probed for keeping the entry in NUD_REACHABLE state iff possible.

Nice idea

> 
> The use case for this is targeting XDP or tc BPF load-balancers which use
> the bpf_fib_lookup() BPF helper in order to piggyback on neighbor resolution
> for their backends. Given they cannot be resolved in fast-path,

Out of curiosity, can you explain why that is? Because XDP is only fast
path? At least that's what I understand from commit 87f5fc7e48dd ("bpf:
Provide helper to do forwarding lookups in kernel FIB table") and it is
similar to L3 offload

> a control plane inserts the L3 (without L2) entries manually into the
> neighbor table and lets the kernel do the neighbor resolution either
> on the gateway or on the backend directly in case the latter resides
> in the same L2. This avoids to deal with L2 in the control plane and
> to rebuild what the kernel already does best anyway.

Are you using 'fib_multipath_use_neigh' sysctl to avoid going through
failed nexthops? Looking at how the bpf_fib_lookup() helper is
implemented, seems that you can benefit from it in XDP

> 
> NTF_EXT_MANAGED can be combined with NTF_EXT_LEARNED in order to avoid GC
> eviction. The kernel then adds NTF_MANAGED flagged entries to a per-neighbor
> table which gets triggered by the system work queue to periodically call
> neigh_event_send() for performing the resolution. The implementation allows
> migration from/to NTF_MANAGED neighbor entries, so that already existing
> entries can be converted by the control plane if needed. Potentially, we could
> make the interval for periodically calling neigh_event_send() configurable;
> right now it's set to DELAY_PROBE_TIME which is also in line with mlxsw which
> has similar driver-internal infrastructure c723c735fa6b ("mlxsw: spectrum_router:
> Periodically update the kernel's neigh table"). In future, the latter could
> possibly reuse the NTF_MANAGED neighbors as well.

Yes, mlxsw can set this flag on neighbours used for its nexthops. Looks
like the use cases are similar: Avoid going to slow path, either from
XDP or HW.

In our HW the nexthop table is squashed together with the neighbour
table, so that it provides {netdev, MAC} and not {netdev, IP} with which
the kernel performs another lookup in its neighbour table. We want to
avoid situations where we perform multipathing between valid and failed
nexthop (basically, fib_multipath_use_neigh=1), so we only program valid
nexthop. But it means that nothing will trigger the resolution of the
failed nexthops, thus the need to probe the neighbours.

> 
> Example:
> 
>   # ./ip/ip n replace 192.168.178.30 dev enp5s0 managed extern_learn
>   # ./ip/ip n
>   192.168.178.30 dev enp5s0 lladdr f4:8c:50:5e:71:9a managed extern_learn REACHABLE
>   [...]
> 
> Signed-off-by: Daniel Borkmann <daniel@...earbox.net>
> Acked-by: Roopa Prabhu <roopa@...dia.com>
> Link: https://linuxplumbersconf.org/event/11/contributions/953/

I was going to ask why not just default the kernel to resolve GW IPs (it
knows them when the nexthops are configured), but then I saw slide 34. I
guess that's what you meant by "... or on the backend directly in case
the latter resides in the same L2"?

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