Message-ID: <CANr-f5zv6hrMHT5U6b5CmJuwu00SC5eNkwJgrONU67kGsq1Eug@mail.gmail.com>
Date:   Fri, 7 Jan 2022 21:33:03 +0100
From:   Gerhard Engleder <gerhard@...leder-embedded.com>
To:     Magnus Karlsson <magnus.karlsson@...il.com>
Cc:     netdev <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
        Vinicius Costa Gomes <vinicius.gomes@...el.com>
Subject: Re: RFC: tsnep: ETF, AF_XDP, UIO or driver specific interface for real-time

On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 10:01 AM Magnus Karlsson
<magnus.karlsson@...il.com> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 10:29 PM Gerhard Engleder
> <gerhard@...leder-embedded.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 8:37 AM Magnus Karlsson
> > <magnus.karlsson@...il.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 11:12 PM Gerhard Engleder
> > > <gerhard@...leder-embedded.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 9:26 AM Magnus Karlsson
> > > > <magnus.karlsson@...il.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Dec 31, 2021 at 10:44 AM Gerhard Engleder
> > > > > <gerhard@...leder-embedded.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Dec 27, 2021 at 8:03 PM Vinicius Costa Gomes
> > > > > > <vinicius.gomes@...el.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Gerhard,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Gerhard Engleder <gerhard@...leder-embedded.com> writes:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > the driver for my FPGA based TSN endpoint Ethernet MAC is now in net-next. As
> > > > > > > > a first step, it supports a single TX/RX queue pair for normal Ethernet
> > > > > > > > communication. For TSN it supports hardware timestamps (PTP) and TAPRIO (gate
> > > > > > > > control). The next step is the user space interface for real-time communication
> > > > > > > > over additional TX/RX queue pairs.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Multiple interfaces are used for real-time communication in user space:
> > > > > > > > A) ETF for timed transmit
> > > > > > > > B) AF_XDP for direct access omitting the network stack
> > > > > > > > C) UIO for mapping devices to user space
> > > > > > > > D) driver specific interfaces for direct access to DMA buffers and IO memory
> > > > > > > >    (out of tree)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The additional TX/RX queue pairs of my Ethernet MAC are optimized for real-time
> > > > > > > > communication. The mapping to ETF or AF_XDP is not straightforward. I know a
> > > > > > > > little about UIO and ETF and I have read Documentation/networking/af_xdp.rst,
> > > > > > > > but that does not qualify me as an expert. So I want to discuss if ETF, AF_XDP,
> > > > > > > > UIO or any other standard Linux user space interface is the right choice for my
> > > > > > > > driver?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > First I want to describe the main real-time feature of the device, the periodic
> > > > > > > > TX schedule:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The data exchange between hardware and software is done similarly to other
> > > > > > > > Ethernet MACs. Descriptor rings are used and the ownership of descriptors
> > > > > > > > is transferred from software to hardware and vice versa during operation.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Usually TX descriptor rings are queues, which transfer data from RAM to
> > > > > > > > Ethernet MAC as fast as possible. This is the case for the first TX/RX queue
> > > > > > > > pair, which is used by the Ethernet driver. For real-time communication
> > > > > > > > transmission at defined points in time is a requirement. Additionally, the
> > > > > > > > transmitted data shall be as up-to-data as possible. Therefore, the data shall
> > > > > > > > be transferred to the Ethernet MAC as late as possible. This enables minimal
> > > > > > > > reaction time for closed loop control. So there are actually two points in time.
> > > > > > > > First, the start of the DMA transfer of data from RAM to Ethernet MAC. Second,
> > > > > > > > the start of the transmission over Ethernet.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Therefore, the TX descriptor ring of additional TX/RX queue pairs is enhanced
> > > > > > > > with timing information. This timing information defines both points in time.
> > > > > > > > As a result, the TX descriptor ring is processed at defined points in time and
> > > > > > > > not as fast as possible.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Real-time communication is usually periodic. The timing pattern repeats after
> > > > > > > > the least common multiple of all cycle times. The relative timing information
> > > > > > > > of two consecutive TX descriptors is constant. So relative timing information
> > > > > > > > is used within the TX descriptor ring. There is no need to update this relative
> > > > > > > > timing information during operation. Only transmitted data and ownership must
> > > > > > > > be updated. The TAPRIO gate control list is good example for a periodic
> > > > > > > > schedule.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The periodic nature of real-time communication has another side effect. The
> > > > > > > > timing is known in advance. So a TX descriptor is able to define the timing of
> > > > > > > > the next TX descriptor. As a result, the hardware knows the timing of the next
> > > > > > > > TX descriptor without fetching it from RAM. This prevents a chicken egg problem:
> > > > > > > > the TX descriptor cannot define its own DMA timing, because DMA would be needed
> > > > > > > > to read this timing.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > All these properties lead to a periodic TX schedule implemented with an
> > > > > > > > enhanced TX descriptor ring. Let's describe the details with an example:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > - two cycle times
> > > > > > > >   - single Ethernet frame every 100us, first TX at absolute time 7000us
> > > > > > > >     - TX times: 7000us, 7100us, 7200us, ...
> > > > > > > >   - single Ethernet frame every 200us, first TX at absolute time 7050us
> > > > > > > >     - TX times: 7050us, 7250us, 7450us, ...
> > > > > > > > - DMA shall be done as late as possible for 100us cycle time
> > > > > > > > - DMA of 200us cycle time shall be done directly after DMA of 100us cycle time
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The perdiodic TX schedule for this example looks like this:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > +-------------<-------------------------<-------------------------<------------+
> > > > > > > > |                                                                              |
> > > > > > > > +-->+-------------------+---->+-------------------+---->+-------------------+->+
> > > > > > > >     | TX desc 1 @0x1000 |     | TX desc 2 @0x2000 |     | TX desc 3 @0x3000 |
> > > > > > > >     |                   |     |                   |     |                   |
> > > > > > > >     | next_desc=0x2000  |     | next_desc=0x3000  |     | next_desc=0x1000  |
> > > > > > > >     | dma_incr=10us     |     | dma_incr=90us     |     | dma_incr=100us    |
> > > > > > > >     | tx_incr=50us      |     | tx_incr=50us      |     | tx_incr=100us     |
> > > > > > > >     +-------------------+     +-------------------+     +-------------------+
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "next_desc" is the address of the next TX descriptor. "dma_incr" defines the
> > > > > > > > DMA start time of the next TX descriptor:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "DMA start time" = "Current DMA start time" + dma_incr
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Similar "tx_incr" defines the Ethernet TX start time of the next TX descriptor:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Ethernet TX start time" = "Current Ethernet TX start time" + tx_incr
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The TX descriptor processing needs initial values for the address of the first
> > > > > > > > descriptor, the DMA start time of the first descriptor, and the Ethernet TX
> > > > > > > > start time of the first descriptor. These initial values are written to
> > > > > > > > registers:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > - "TX descriptor address" register  = 0x1000
> > > > > > > > - "DMA start time" register         =   6980us
> > > > > > > > - "Ethernet TX start time" register =   7000us
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > These three registers always hold information about the next TX descriptor. The
> > > > > > > > location in the RAM, the point it time when it shall be read by DMA, the point
> > > > > > > > in time when it shall be transmitted.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The least common multiple of the cycle times is 200us. Thus, the sum of all
> > > > > > > > "tx_incr" values must be 200us. Also the sum of all "dma_incr" values must be
> > > > > > > > 200us. Otherwise DMA and TX timing would drift away from each other.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > TX descriptors 1 and 3 belong to the 100us cycle time. TX descriptor 2
> > > > > > > > belongs to
> > > > > > > > the 200us cycle time. The TX schedule is processed in the following steps:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >               cycle time | DMA read | Ethernet TX
> > > > > > > > 1) TX desc 1       100us |  @6980us |     @7000us
> > > > > > > > 2) TX desc 2       200us |  @6990us |     @7050us
> > > > > > > > 3) TX desc 3       100us |  @7080us |     @7100us
> > > > > > > > 4) TX desc 1       100us |  @7180us |     @7200us
> > > > > > > > 5) TX desc 2       200us |  @7190us |     @7250us
> > > > > > > > 6) TX desc 3       100us |  @7280us |     @7300us
> > > > > > > > 7) TX desc 1       100us |  @7380us |     @7400us
> > > > > > > > 8) TX desc 2       200us |  @7390us |     @7450us
> > > > > > > > 9) TX desc 3       100us |  @7480us |     @7500us
> > > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > First DMA read is done at 6980us. This point in time is defined with the initial
> > > > > > > > value of the "DMA start time" register. The following DMA reads are
> > > > > > > > determined by
> > > > > > > > the "dma_incr" values of the TX descriptors. Every DMA read is started before
> > > > > > > > the Ethernet TX.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > First Ethernet TX is done at 7000us. This point in time is defined with the
> > > > > > > > initial value of the "Ethernet TX start time" register. The following Ethernet
> > > > > > > > TX times are determined by the "tx_incr" values of the TX descriptors.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So the periodic TX schedule actually contains two schedules. One for DMA read
> > > > > > > > and another one for Ethernet TX. As a result, the timing of DMA and Ethernet TX
> > > > > > > > can be optimized independently from each other. The only restriction is that
> > > > > > > > DMA has to be done before the corresponding Ethernet TX.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > At the risk of repeating what you said, here's what I could gather that
> > > > > > > you would need.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >  1. Exclusive access of one application (or closely cooperating group of
> > > > > > >     applications) to one TX ring;
> > > > > > >  2. Direct access to the device DMA mapped memory;
> > > > > > >  3. A way to configure the {DMA,TX} start times and the {DMA,TX}
> > > > > > >     increments;
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, that's a good summary.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This periodic TX schedule has been used in a similar way for the
> > > > > > > > EtherCAT fieldbus
> > > > > > > > for nearly 10 years with positive experience. So for OPC UA Pub/Sub TSN it
> > > > > > > > shall be used again.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This periodic TX schedule does not fit to ETF, because ETF uses absolute time
> > > > > > > > stamps and the timing is not known in advance. Additionally, the intention of
> > > > > > > > the periodic TX schedule is that the real-time application writes the data
> > > > > > > > directly to the TX descriptor ring. AF_XDP has a similar direction, but does
> > > > > > > > not support any TX timing.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That's the magic of AF_XDP, as it is only a data path abstraction, you
> > > > > > > can move the control path somewhere else. One idea below.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I assume you mean control path stuff like ethtool flow-type ether.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have no knowledge about any other Ethernet MAC which supports timed TX in
> > > > > > > > a similar way like this device.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Currently a simple device/driver specific interface is used. Similar to UIO it
> > > > > > > > supports the mapping of registers of TX/RX queue pairs to user space. Every
> > > > > > > > additional TX/RX queue pair has its own register set within a separate 4kB
> > > > > > > > IO-memory. Thus, only the register sets of the additional TX/RX queue pairs are
> > > > > > > > mapped to user space. Every TX/RX queue pair is more less a separate device,
> > > > > > > > which can be operated independent of any other TX/RX queue pair. Additionally,
> > > > > > > > this device/driver specific interface supports the mapping of DMA buffers.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A similar approach has been used for years for the periodic TX schedule in
> > > > > > > > combination with the EtherCAT fieldbus (out of tree driver). The main advantage
> > > > > > > > of this approach is that no hard or soft IRQs are needed for operation. There is
> > > > > > > > no need to increase to priority of soft IRQs, which can lead to real-time
> > > > > > > > problems.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Which user space interface shall be used for this periodic TX schedule? Is
> > > > > > > > ETF or XDP an option? Shall UIO be used like for other real-time controllers?
> > > > > > > > Is a device/driver specific interface the way to go, because no other Ethernet
> > > > > > > > MAC has an interface like this?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think that AF_XDP (with zero copy) already has everything you need for
> > > > > > > the data plane, (1) and (2) above.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm not sure. AF_XDP ring size is a power of 2, but in my case the
> > > > > > ring size is the
> > > > > > number of Ethernet frames within the least common multiple of all cycle times.
> > > > > > Also AF_XDP works like a FIFO, the Ethernet frames are transmitted one after the
> > > > > > other. In my case every Ethernet frame has to be placed at a certain
> > > > > > position in the
> > > > > > TX ring. This can be done at any time before the transmission and does
> > > > > > not need to
> > > > > > match the transmission order.
> > > > > > To be able to put the Ethernet frame at the right position in the TX
> > > > > > ring additional
> > > > > > information is required. Otherwise, the transmission time cannot be
> > > > > > determined. At
> > > > > > least some reference to the control plane (3) data is needed.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, the AF_XDP rings are strictly FIFO, so you would have to consume
> > > > > the descriptors in the driver in FIFO order and store them in some
> > > > > buffer there so you can put them onto your HW in arbitrary order.
> > > > > Would make your driver look very different from the other zero-copy
> > > > > drivers that have zero buffering in the data path.
> > > >
> > > > That doesn't sound like a good fit to me. Zero-copy is something I would
> > > > like to achieve. But hiding the periodic TX schedule behind the AF_XDP
> > > > FIFO interface seems to be a misuse.
> > >
> > > For me, the important aspect of zero-copy is that the packets
> > > themselves are not copied. This is still true with my suggestion. What
> > > is being copied and buffered are the descriptors only, not the
> > > buffers/packets themselves. Is copying descriptors too much? I do
> > > agree that it would be some kind of misuse of the FIFO. Better that it
> > > is not a FIFO at all in your case and that buffering is only done in
> > > that structure. Complicated to have to implement buffering in the
> > > driver.
> >
> > Sorry, I misunderstood your first reply. Yes, copying descriptors should not
> > matter. I will try to add XDP and zero copy support to the driver to see what
> > is possible and gain more understanding of AF_XDP.
> >
> > > > > One thing to note is that entries in the completion ring are reserved
> > > > > as a prerequisite for consuming a Tx ring entry. As you probably want
> > > > > to buffer packets in the driver, you would have to have a completion
> > > > > ring that is as least as large as the number of outstanding Tx packets
> > > > > plus the number of buffered packets in your driver. Otherwise, the
> > > > > application will not be able to send packets in all circumstances.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > So what's seems to be really missing is the control plane, (3).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > At least for static timing information moving the timing information
> > > > > > like {DMA,TX}
> > > > > > start times and the {DMA,TX} increments out of the data plane should
> > > > > > be possible.
> > > > > > For runtime changes, e.g. add/remove Ethernet frames to/from TX schedule during
> > > > > > operation, I'm not so sure, because data and control is tied together
> > > > > > in the TX descriptor.
> > > > >
> > > > > You probably want to stick this info in the metadata section before
> > > > > the packet as done in this RFC [1]. This would be the Tx analogue of
> > > > > the Rx part in [2]. Lot of work still remains here though.
> > > >
> > > > XDP hints are new to me. Interesting to read for me as I know only little
> > > > about BPF. Metadata like timestamps sounds reasonable to me. Not only
> > > > for PTP, but also for diagnosis of timing problems in real-time applications
> > > > (actual TX/RX time). Besides timestamps, my device supports additional
> > > > metadata for diagnosis: DMA timing measurement (time until first/last dword).
> > > >
> > > > > > > What I would do is something like this, I would add a few debugfs
> > > > > > > entries to the driver allowing me to configure the "extra" per ring
> > > > > > > parameters. This also gives some chance to see what is best format for
> > > > > > > communicating those parameters to the driver.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > With that I could see if something is not quite working from the AF_XDP
> > > > > > > side, fix those (I think the community will have some interest in having
> > > > > > > these cases fixed) while discussing where is the best place to put those
> > > > > > > configuration knobs. My first shot would be ethtool.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is it a possible future goal of AF_XDP to enable TX/RX of Ethernet
> > > > > > frames without
> > > > > > any kernel mode interactions? E.g. a hardware implementation of the AF_XDP
> > > > > > interface, or some VDSO code for descriptor ring handling?
> > > > >
> > > > > I have heard about people wanting to try to build a HW AF_XDP
> > > > > implementation using an FPGA. Do not know if anything came through in
> > > > > the end. Will dig around a bit.
> > > > >in user space
> > > > > As for the VDSO approach, what are you thinking there? To be able to
> > > > > have different flavors of rings (or other structures) for
> > > > > communication between user-space and kernel?
> > > >
> > > > I would say yes. Hide the actual flavor of rings (or other structures) behind
> > > > VDSO.
> > > >
> > > > Direct access to descriptor rings without kernel mode interaction is currently
> > > > done the following way: Descriptor rings of network devices are mapped to
> > > > user space. Device specific driver code is used to handle the descriptor ring
> > > > (transfer ownership to hardware, check ownership, write frame to TX descriptor,
> > > > read frame from RX descriptor, ...). This results in a device specific interface
> > > > and makes the application device specific. But the application should not be
> > > > tied to specific devices.
> > > >
> > > > Rough idea is, that device specific code is provided to user space over VDSO.
> > > > Descriptor rings are mapped to user space and handled with device specific
> > > > VDSO code. The VDSO functions are the interface, not the device specific
> > > > descriptor ring. The application could rely on this interface and wouldn't be
> > > > device specific.
> > > >
> > > > I assume that VDSO is not intended for that. But VDSO clock_gettime() is great.
> > > > So my idea is to copy its "do it in user space if possible, but let the kernel
> > > > determine how" approach.
> > >
> > > In the early RFC days of AF_XDP, we had code for being able to plug in
> > > different ring structures (or something else to be used to communicate
> > > between kernel and user-space), but we removed it as it complicated
> > > the code and had a negative performance impact. But the idea is
> > > interesting.
> >
> > If we assume, that the implementation is possible: Would AF_XDP be the right
> > location for a feature, which allows direct mapping and handling of hardware
> > TX/RX descriptor rings for Ethernet frame TX/RX in user space in a hardware
> > independent way?
>
> Probably not in the general case. I am a little worried when you write
> "direct mapping and handling of hardware TX/RX descriptor rings". The
> explicit goal of AF_XDP is (or at least was from the start) to support
> a HW independent abstraction without exposing any HW rings to user
> space and the complications that come with that. If these exposed
> rings would be NIC specific HW rings, then we are halfways into SR-IOV
> land and would require VF netdevs to be safe.

So you mean exposing HW rings to user space is similar to exposing them
to VMs.

> If they are HW AF_XDP
> rings, on the other hand, this could potentially be supported if it
> would not be possible to crash or subvert these rings even if the
> interface was abused in the HW implementation.

Why HW implementation? I expected abuse by the SW implementation in
user space. Programming DMA to/from arbitrary physical addresses in user
space is a security problem. But devices, which are able to initiate DMA,
must be trusted anyway.

> Arbitrary SW rings as an abstraction to user-space, would be easier to
> support and more in line with the current focus of AF_XDP. Just
> wondering if there are enough use cases for this out there though.
> Have not asked around.

About AF_XDP use cases: AF_XDP is suggested for real-time Ethernet
packet TX/RX. What is your opinion on that? Is this a supported use case
of AF_XDP?

> > AF_XDP already supports exclusive usage of hardwareTX/RX descriptor rings
> > for user space applications. Interrupts and soft IRQs are involved, which make
> > the life for real-time developers complicated (real-time priority,
> > core assignment,
> > ...) and degrade real-time performance. So it would be great to eliminate the
> > kernel space code and handle the hardware TX/RX descriptor rings directly in
> > user space.
> >
> > > > >
> > > > > [1] https://lists.xdp-project.net/xdp-hints/20210803010331.39453-1-ederson.desouza@intel.com/
> > > > > [2] https://lore.kernel.org/bpf/20210526125848.1c7adbb0@carbon/
> > > > >
> > > > > /Magnus
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'm looking forward to your comments.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Gerhard
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Vinicius

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