netdev - Re: [RFC net] Fixes: b63c5478e9cb ("ipv6: ioam: Support for Queue depth data field")

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Message-ID: <d9269f66-17ee-2682-3a0a-94cbdc985614@uliege.be>
Date:   Wed, 7 Dec 2022 13:10:45 +0100
From:   Justin Iurman <justin.iurman@...ege.be>
To:     Jakub Kicinski <kuba@...nel.org>
Cc:     Eric Dumazet <edumazet@...gle.com>, netdev@...r.kernel.org,
        davem@...emloft.net, yoshfuji@...ux-ipv6.org, dsahern@...nel.org,
        pabeni@...hat.com, stable@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [RFC net] Fixes: b63c5478e9cb ("ipv6: ioam: Support for Queue
 depth data field")

On 12/7/22 13:07, Justin Iurman wrote:
> On 12/6/22 21:43, Jakub Kicinski wrote:
>> On Mon, 5 Dec 2022 21:44:09 +0100 Justin Iurman wrote:
>>>> Please revert this patch.
>>>>
>>>> Many people use FQ qdisc, where packets are waiting for their Earliest
>>>> Departure Time to be released.
>>>
>>> The IOAM queue depth is a very important value and is already used.
>>
>> Can you say more about the use? What signal do you derive from it?
>> I do track qlen on Meta's servers but haven't found a strong use
>> for it yet (I did for backlog drops but not the qlen itself).
> 
> The specification goal of the queue depth was initially to be able to 
> track the entire path with a detailed view for packets or flows (kind of 
> a zoom on the interface to have details about its queues). With the 
> current definition/implementation of the queue depth, if only one queue 
> is congested, you're able to know it. Which doesn't necessarily mean 
> that all queues are full, but this one is and there might be something 
> going on. And this is something operators might want to be able to 
> detect precisely, for a lot of use cases depending on the situation. On 
> the contrary, if all queues are full, then you could deduce that as well 
> for each queue separately, as soon as a packet is assigned to it. So I 
> think that with "queue depth = sum(queues)", you don't have details and 
> you're not able to detect a single queue congestion, while with "queue 
> depth = queue" you could detect both. One might argue that it's fine to 
> only have the aggregation in some situation. I'd say that we might need 
> both, actually. Which is technically possible (even though expensive, as 
> Eric mentioned) thanks to the way it is specified by the RFC, where some 
> freedom was intentionally given. I could come up with a solution for that.
> 
>>>> Also, the draft says:
>>>>
>>>> 5.4.2.7.  queue depth
>>>>
>>>>      The "queue depth" field is a 4-octet unsigned integer field.  This
>>>>      field indicates the current length of the egress interface 
>>>> queue of
>>>>      the interface from where the packet is forwarded out.  The queue
>>>>      depth is expressed as the current amount of memory buffers used by
>>>>      the queue (a packet could consume one or more memory buffers,
>>>>      depending on its size).
>>>>
>>>>       0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>>>>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>>      |                       queue depth                             |
>>>>      +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It is relatively clear that the egress interface is the aggregate
>>>> egress interface,
>>>> not a subset of the interface.
>>>
>>> Correct, even though the definition of an interface in RFC 9197 is quite
>>> abstract (see the end of section 4.4.2.2: "[...] could represent a
>>> physical interface, a virtual or logical interface, or even a queue").
>>>
>>>> If you have 32 TX queues on a NIC, all of them being backlogged 
>>>> (line rate),
>>>> sensing the queue length of one of the queues would give a 97% error
>>>> on the measure.
>>>
>>> Why would it? Not sure I get your idea based on that example.
>>
>> Because it measures the length of a single queue not the device.
> 
> Yep, I figured that out after the off-list discussion we've had with Eric.
> 
> So my plan would be, if you all agree with, to correct and repost this 
> patch to fix the NULL qdisc issue. Then, I'd come with a solution to 
> allow both (with and without aggregation of queues) and post it on 
> net-next. But again, if the consensus is to revert this patch (which I 
> think would bring no benefit IMHO), then so be it. Thoughts?

And by "revert this patch", I meant revert b63c5478e9cb, sorry.