netdev - Re: [PATCH net-next RFC 00/20] Introducing P4TC

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Date:   Mon, 30 Jan 2023 20:12:24 -0800
From:   Jakub Kicinski <kuba@...nel.org>
To:     Jamal Hadi Salim <jhs@...atatu.com>
Cc:     John Fastabend <john.fastabend@...il.com>,
        "Singhai, Anjali" <anjali.singhai@...el.com>,
        Toke Høiland-Jørgensen <toke@...hat.com>,
        Jamal Hadi Salim <hadi@...atatu.com>,
        Jiri Pirko <jiri@...nulli.us>,
        Willem de Bruijn <willemb@...gle.com>,
        Stanislav Fomichev <sdf@...gle.com>,
        "netdev@...r.kernel.org" <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
        "kernel@...atatu.com" <kernel@...atatu.com>,
        "Chatterjee, Deb" <deb.chatterjee@...el.com>,
        "Limaye, Namrata" <namrata.limaye@...el.com>,
        "khalidm@...dia.com" <khalidm@...dia.com>,
        "tom@...anda.io" <tom@...anda.io>,
        "pratyush@...anda.io" <pratyush@...anda.io>,
        "xiyou.wangcong@...il.com" <xiyou.wangcong@...il.com>,
        "davem@...emloft.net" <davem@...emloft.net>,
        "edumazet@...gle.com" <edumazet@...gle.com>,
        "pabeni@...hat.com" <pabeni@...hat.com>,
        "vladbu@...dia.com" <vladbu@...dia.com>,
        "simon.horman@...igine.com" <simon.horman@...igine.com>,
        "stefanc@...vell.com" <stefanc@...vell.com>,
        "seong.kim@....com" <seong.kim@....com>,
        "mattyk@...dia.com" <mattyk@...dia.com>,
        "Daly, Dan" <dan.daly@...el.com>,
        "Fingerhut, John Andy" <john.andy.fingerhut@...el.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH net-next RFC 00/20] Introducing P4TC

On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 19:26:05 -0500 Jamal Hadi Salim wrote:
> > Didn't see this as it was top posted but, the answer is you don't program
> > hardware the ebpf when your underlying target is a MAT.
> >
> > Use devlink for the runtime programming as well, its there to program
> > hardware. This "Devlink is NOT for the runtime programming" is
> > just an artificate of the design here which I disagree with and it feels
> > like many other folks also disagree.
> 
> We are going to need strong justification to use devlink for
> programming the binary interface to begin with

We may disagree on direction, but we should agree status quo / reality.

What John described is what we suggested to Intel to do (2+ years ago),
and what is already implemented upstream. Grep for DDP.

IIRC my opinion back then was that unless kernel has any use for
whatever the configuration exposes - we should stay out of it.

> - see the driver models discussion. 
> 
> And let me get this clear: you are suggesting we
> use it for runtime and redo all that tc ndo and associated infra?