Message-ID: <ZEAZacIv9ssQF1hD@lore-desk>
Date:   Wed, 19 Apr 2023 18:40:09 +0200
From:   Lorenzo Bianconi <lorenzo.bianconi@...hat.com>
To:     Jesper Dangaard Brouer <jbrouer@...hat.com>
Cc:     Lorenzo Bianconi <lorenzo@...nel.org>, brouer@...hat.com,
        Eric Dumazet <edumazet@...gle.com>,
        Jakub Kicinski <kuba@...nel.org>, netdev@...r.kernel.org,
        hawk@...nel.org, ilias.apalodimas@...aro.org, davem@...emloft.net,
        pabeni@...hat.com, bpf@...r.kernel.org, nbd@....name,
        Toke Hoiland Jorgensen <toke@...hat.com>
Subject: Re: issue with inflight pages from page_pool

> 
> 
> On 19/04/2023 16.21, Lorenzo Bianconi wrote:
> > > 
> > > On 19/04/2023 14.09, Eric Dumazet wrote:
> > > > On Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 1:08 PM Jesper Dangaard Brouer
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > On 18/04/2023 09.36, Lorenzo Bianconi wrote:
> > > > > > > On Mon, 17 Apr 2023 23:31:01 +0200 Lorenzo Bianconi wrote:
> > > > > > > > > If it's that then I'm with Eric. There are many ways to keep the pages
> > > > > > > > > in use, no point working around one of them and not the rest :(
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > I was not clear here, my fault. What I mean is I can see the returned
> > > > > > > > pages counter increasing from time to time, but during most of tests,
> > > > > > > > even after 2h the tcp traffic has stopped, page_pool_release_retry()
> > > > > > > > still complains not all the pages are returned to the pool and so the
> > > > > > > > pool has not been deallocated yet.
> > > > > > > > The chunk of code in my first email is just to demonstrate the issue
> > > > > > > > and I am completely fine to get a better solution :)
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Your problem is perhaps made worse by threaded NAPI, you have
> > > > > > > defer-free skbs sprayed across all cores and no NAPI there to
> > > > > > > flush them :(
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > yes, exactly :)
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > I guess we just need a way to free the pool in a reasonable amount
> > > > > > > > of time. Agree?
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Whether we need to guarantee the release is the real question.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > yes, this is the main goal of my email. The defer-free skbs behaviour seems in
> > > > > > contrast with the page_pool pending pages monitor mechanism or at least they
> > > > > > do not work well together.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > @Jesper, Ilias: any input on it?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Maybe it's more of a false-positive warning.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Flushing the defer list is probably fine as a hack, but it's not
> > > > > > > a full fix as Eric explained. False positive can still happen.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > agree, it was just a way to give an idea of the issue, not a proper solution.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > Lorenzo
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I'm ambivalent. My only real request wold be to make the flushing
> > > > > > > a helper in net/core/dev.c rather than open coded in page_pool.c.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I agree. We need a central defer_list flushing helper
> > > > > 
> > > > > It is too easy to say this is a false-positive warning.
> > > > > IHMO this expose an issue with the sd->defer_list system.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Lorenzo's test is adding+removing veth devices, which creates and runs
> > > > > NAPI processing on random CPUs.  After veth netdevices (+NAPI) are
> > > > > removed, nothing will naturally invoking net_rx_softirq on this CPU.
> > > > > Thus, we have SKBs waiting on CPUs sd->defer_list.  Further more we will
> > > > > not create new SKB with this skb->alloc_cpu, to trigger RX softirq IPI
> > > > > call (trigger_rx_softirq), even if this CPU process and frees SKBs.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I see two solutions:
> > > > > 
> > > > >     (1) When netdevice/NAPI unregister happens call defer_list flushing
> > > > > helper.
> > > > > 
> > > > >     (2) Use napi_watchdog to detect if defer_list is (many jiffies) old,
> > > > > and then call defer_list flushing helper.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Somewhat related - Eric, do we need to handle defer_list in dev_cpu_dead()?
> > > > > 
> > > > > Looks to me like dev_cpu_dead() also need this flushing helper for
> > > > > sd->defer_list, or at least moving the sd->defer_list to an sd that will
> > > > > run eventually.
> > > > 
> > > > I think I just considered having a few skbs in per-cpu list would not
> > > > be an issue,
> > > > especially considering skbs can sit hours in tcp receive queues.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > It was the first thing I said to Lorenzo when he first reported the
> > > problem to me (over chat): It is likely packets sitting in a TCP queue.
> > > Then I instructed him to look at output from netstat to see queues and
> > > look for TIME-WAIT, FIN-WAIT etc.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > Do we expect hacing some kind of callback/shrinker to instruct TCP or
> > > > pipes to release all pages that prevent
> > > > a page_pool to be freed ?
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > This is *not* what I'm asking for.
> > > 
> > > With TCP sockets (pipes etc) we can take care of closing the sockets
> > > (and programs etc) to free up the SKBs (and perhaps wait for timeouts)
> > > to make sure the page_pool shutdown doesn't hang.
> > > 
> > > The problem arise for all the selftests that uses veth and bpf_test_run
> > > (using bpf_test_run_xdp_live / xdp_test_run_setup).  For the selftests
> > > we obviously take care of closing sockets and removing veth interfaces
> > > again.  Problem: The defer_list corner-case isn't under our control.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > Here, we are talking of hundreds of thousands of skbs, compared to at
> > > > most 32 skbs per cpu.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > It is not a memory usage concern.
> > > 
> > > > Perhaps sets sysctl_skb_defer_max to zero by default, so that admins
> > > > can opt-in
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > I really like the sd->defer_list system and I think is should be enabled
> > > by default.  Even if disabled by default, we still need to handle these
> > > corner cases, as the selftests shouldn't start to cause-issues when this
> > > gets enabled.
> > > 
> > > The simple solution is: (1) When netdevice/NAPI unregister happens call
> > > defer_list flushing helper.  And perhaps we also need to call it in
> > > xdp_test_run_teardown().  How do you feel about that?
> > > 
> > > --Jesper
> > > 
> > 
> > Today I was discussing with Toke about this issue, and we were wondering,
> > if we just consider the page_pool use-case, what about moving the real pool
> > destroying steps when we return a page to the pool in page_pool_put_full_page()
> > if the pool has marked to be destroyed and there are no inflight pages instead
> > of assuming we have all the pages in the pool when we run page_pool_destroy()?
> 
> It sounds like you want to add a runtime check to the fast-path to
> handle these corner cases?
> 
> For performance reason we should not call page_pool_inflight() check in
> fast-path, please!

ack, right.

> 
> Details: You hopefully mean running/calling page_pool_release(pool) and not
> page_pool_destroy().

yes, I mean page_pool_release()

> 
> I'm not totally against the idea, as long as someone is willing to do
> extensive benchmarking that it doesn't affect fast-path performance.
> Given we already read pool->p.flags in fast-path, it might be possible
> to hide the extra branch (in the CPU pipeline).
> 
> 
> > Maybe this means just get rid of the warn in page_pool_release_retry() :)
> > 
> 
> Sure, we can remove the print statement, but it feels like closing our
> eyes and ignoring the problem.  We can remove the print statement, and
> still debug the problem, as I have added tracepoints (to debug this).
> But users will not report these issue early... on the other hand most of
> these reports will likely be false-positives.
> 
> This reminds me that Jakub's recent defer patches returning pages
> 'directly' to the page_pool alloc-cache, will actually result in this
> kind of bug.  This is because page_pool_destroy() assumes that pages
> cannot be returned to alloc-cache, as driver will have "disconnected" RX
> side.  We need to address this bug separately.  Lorenzo you didn't
> happen to use a kernel with Jakub's patches included, do you?

nope, I did not tested them.

Regards,
Lorenzo

> 
> --Jesper
> 
> 
> 

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