Message-ID: <ZEdP1tSiGAgvy7s8@Laptop-X1>
Date:   Tue, 25 Apr 2023 11:58:14 +0800
From:   Hangbin Liu <liuhangbin@...il.com>
To:     Jakub Kicinski <kuba@...nel.org>
Cc:     netdev@...r.kernel.org, Roopa Prabhu <roopa@...dia.com>,
        Nikolay Aleksandrov <razor@...ckwall.org>,
        Ido Schimmel <idosch@...dia.com>,
        bridge@...ts.linux-foundation.org
Subject: Re: [Question] Any plan to write/update the bridge doc?

On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 02:28:00PM -0700, Jakub Kicinski wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Apr 2023 17:25:08 +0800 Hangbin Liu wrote:
> > Maybe someone already has asked. The only official Linux bridge document I
> > got is a very ancient wiki page[1] or the ip link man page[2][3]. As there are
> > many bridge stp/vlan/multicast paramegers. Should we add a detailed kernel
> > document about each parameter? The parameter showed in ip link page seems
> > a little brief.
> > 
> > I'd like to help do this work. But apparently neither my English nor my
> > understanding of the code is good enough. Anyway, if you want, I can help
> > write a draft version first and you (bridge maintainers) keep working on this.
> > 
> > [1] https://wiki.linuxfoundation.org/networking/bridge
> > [2] https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man8/bridge.8.html
> > [3] https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man8/ip-link.8.html
> 
> Sounds like we have 2 votes for the CLI man pages but I'd like to
> register a vote for in-kernel documentation.
> 
> I work at a large company so my perspective may differ but from what 
> I see:
> 
>  - users who want to call the kernel API should not have to look at 
>    the CLI's man
>  - man pages use archaic and arcane markup, I'd like to know how many
>    people actually know how it works and how many copy / paste / look;
>    ReST is prevalent, simple and commonly understood

+1 for the obscure man page syntax. I can only do copy/paste when update it..

>  - in-kernel docs are rendered on the web as soon as they hit linux-next
>  - we can make sure documentation is provided with the kernel changes,
>    in an ideal world it doesn't matter but in practice the CLI support
>    may never happen (no to mention that iproute does not hold all CLI)

Yes. I saw bpf code add the doc in the header file (include/uapi/linux/bpf.h)
and generate to syscall page[1] or man page[2] directly. Another example is the
statistics.rst document, which takes *struct rtnl_link_stats64* description
drectly from the if_link.h. This should save a lot works to maintain another
file in Documentation. Maybe we can strive in this direction?

For example, we can just add descriptions for the enum in if_bridge.h and
if_link.h when add new features.
> 
> Obviously if Stephen and Ido prefer to document the bridge CLI that's
> perfectly fine, it's their call :) For new sections of uAPI, however,
> I personally find in-kernel docs superior.

I understand the hard work to maintain docs in 3 different places with
different syntax (ip-link, bridge, in-kernel). Since we will sync the uapi
headers from kernel to iproute2. Can we use the similar way like kernel does
in iproute2. i.e. Link the header file's description in a document and
convert it to man page via rst2man? With this way we only need to maintain
the doc in 1 place, the kernel uapi headers.

NOTE: there may still need some adjustment in the iproute2 man page when add
new arguments.

[1] https://docs.kernel.org/userspace-api/ebpf/syscall.html
[2] https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man7/bpf-helpers.7.html
[3] https://docs.kernel.org/networking/statistics.html

Thanks
Hangbin

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