netdev - Re: [RFC bpf-next 0/7] bpf: netdev TX metadata

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Message-ID: <ZIiaHXr9M0LGQ0Ht@google.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2023 09:32:29 -0700
From: Stanislav Fomichev <sdf@...gle.com>
To: "Toke Høiland-Jørgensen" <toke@...nel.org>
Cc: bpf@...r.kernel.org, ast@...nel.org, daniel@...earbox.net, 
	andrii@...nel.org, martin.lau@...ux.dev, song@...nel.org, yhs@...com, 
	john.fastabend@...il.com, kpsingh@...nel.org, haoluo@...gle.com, 
	jolsa@...nel.org, willemb@...gle.com, dsahern@...nel.org, 
	magnus.karlsson@...el.com, bjorn@...nel.org, maciej.fijalkowski@...el.com, 
	netdev@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [RFC bpf-next 0/7] bpf: netdev TX metadata

On 06/12, Toke Høiland-Jørgensen wrote:
> Some immediate thoughts after glancing through this:
> 
> > --- Use cases ---
> >
> > The goal of this series is to add two new standard-ish places
> > in the transmit path:
> >
> > 1. Right before the packet is transmitted (with access to TX
> >    descriptors)
> > 2. Right after the packet is actually transmitted and we've received the
> >    completion (again, with access to TX completion descriptors)
> >
> > Accessing TX descriptors unlocks the following use-cases:
> >
> > - Setting device hints at TX: XDP/AF_XDP might use these new hooks to
> > use device offloads. The existing case implements TX timestamp.
> > - Observability: global per-netdev hooks can be used for tracing
> > the packets and exploring completion descriptors for all sorts of
> > device errors.
> >
> > Accessing TX descriptors also means that the hooks have to be called
> > from the drivers.
> >
> > The hooks are a light-weight alternative to XDP at egress and currently
> > don't provide any packet modification abilities. However, eventually,
> > can expose new kfuncs to operate on the packet (or, rather, the actual
> > descriptors; for performance sake).
> 
> dynptr?

Haven't considered, let me explore, but not sure what it buys us
here?

> > --- UAPI ---
> >
> > The hooks are implemented in a HID-BPF style. Meaning they don't
> > expose any UAPI and are implemented as tracing programs that call
> > a bunch of kfuncs. The attach/detach operation happen via BPF syscall
> > programs. The series expands device-bound infrastructure to tracing
> > programs.
> 
> Not a fan of the "attach from BPF syscall program" thing. These are part
> of the XDP data path API, and I think we should expose them as proper
> bpf_link attachments from userspace with introspection etc. But I guess
> the bpf_mprog thing will give us that?

bpf_mprog will just make those attach kfuncs return the link fd. The
syscall program will still stay :-(

> > --- skb vs xdp ---
> >
> > The hooks operate on a new light-weight devtx_frame which contains:
> > - data
> > - len
> > - sinfo
> >
> > This should allow us to have a unified (from BPF POW) place at TX
> > and not be super-taxing (we need to copy 2 pointers + len to the stack
> > for each invocation).
> 
> Not sure what I think about this one. At the very least I think we
> should expose xdp->data_meta as well. I'm not sure what the use case for
> accessing skbs is? If that *is* indeed useful, probably there will also
> end up being a use case for accessing the full skb?

skb_shared_info has meta_len, buf afaik, xdp doesn't use it. Maybe I
a good opportunity to unify? Or probably won't work because if
xdf_frame doesn't have frags, it won't have sinfo?

> > --- Multiprog attachment ---
> >
> > Currently, attach/detach don't expose links and don't support multiple
> > programs. I'm planning to use Daniel's bpf_mprog once it lands.
> >
> > --- TODO ---
> >
> > Things that I'm planning to do for the non-RFC series:
> > - have some real device support to verify xdp_hw_metadata works
> 
> Would be good to see some performance numbers as well :)

+1 :-)

> > - freplace
> > - Documentation/networking/xdp-rx-metadata.rst - like documentation
> >
> > --- CC ---
> >
> > CC'ing people only on the cover letter. Hopefully can find the rest via
> > lore.
> 
> Well, I found it there, even though I was apparently left off the Cc
> list :(
> 
> -Toke

Sure, I'll CC you explicitly next time! But I know you diligently follow bpf
list, so decided to explicitly cc mostly netdev folks that might miss
it otherwise.