netdev - Re: [RFC bpf-next 0/7] bpf: netdev TX metadata

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Message-ID: <ZIn2OrJhWW8V8yiF@google.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2023 10:17:46 -0700
From: Stanislav Fomichev <sdf@...gle.com>
To: Jakub Kicinski <kuba@...nel.org>
Cc: David Ahern <dsahern@...nel.org>, bpf@...r.kernel.org, ast@...nel.org, 
	daniel@...earbox.net, andrii@...nel.org, martin.lau@...ux.dev, 
	song@...nel.org, yhs@...com, john.fastabend@...il.com, kpsingh@...nel.org, 
	haoluo@...gle.com, jolsa@...nel.org, willemb@...gle.com, 
	magnus.karlsson@...el.com, bjorn@...nel.org, maciej.fijalkowski@...el.com, 
	netdev@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [RFC bpf-next 0/7] bpf: netdev TX metadata

On 06/13, Jakub Kicinski wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 20:54:26 -0700 David Ahern wrote:
> > On 6/13/23 9:31 PM, Jakub Kicinski wrote:
> > > On Mon, 12 Jun 2023 10:23:00 -0700 Stanislav Fomichev wrote:  
> > >> The goal of this series is to add two new standard-ish places
> > >> in the transmit path:
> > >>
> > >> 1. Right before the packet is transmitted (with access to TX
> > >>    descriptors)  
> > 
> > If a device requires multiple Tx descriptors per skb or multibuf frame,
> > how would that be handled within the XDP API?
> > 
> > > I'm not sure that the Tx descriptors can be populated piecemeal.  
> > 
> > If it is host memory before the pidx move, why would that matter? Do you
> > have a specific example in mind?
> 
> I don't mean it's impossible implement, but it's may get cumbersome.
> TSO/CSO/crypto may all need to know where L4 header starts, f.e.
> Some ECN marking in the NIC may also want to know where L3 is.
> So the offsets will get duplicated in each API.
> 
> > > If we were ever to support more standard offload features, which
> > > require packet geometry (hdr offsets etc.) to be described "call
> > > per feature" will end up duplicating arguments, and there will be
> > > a lot of args..
> > > 
> > > And if there is an SKB path in the future combining the normal SKB
> > > offloads with the half-rendered descriptors may be a pain.  
> > 
> > Once the descriptor(s) is (are) populated, the skb is irrelevant is it
> > not? Only complication that comes to mind is wanting to add or remove
> > headers (e.g., tunnels) which will be much more complicated at this
> > point, but might still be possible on a per NIC (and maybe version) basis.
> 
> I guess one can write the skb descriptors first, then modify them from
> the BPF. Either way I feel like the helper approach for Tx will result
> in drivers saving the info into some local struct and then rendering
> the descriptors after. We'll see.

I agree that it's probably the "easiest" option to implement for the
majority of the devices that were designed without much of a
programmability this late in the stack. But maybe some devices can
or at least we can try to influence future designs :-)