netdev - Re: [PATCH 0/5] Rust abstractions for network device drivers

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Message-ID: <CANiq72nyTdfBQDrBNOV7MEhpbwM3hYEeyaVZgRpMv8xFkLBwdw@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2023 15:18:37 +0200
From: Miguel Ojeda <miguel.ojeda.sandonis@...il.com>
To: Jakub Kicinski <kuba@...nel.org>
Cc: FUJITA Tomonori <fujita.tomonori@...il.com>, netdev@...r.kernel.org, 
	rust-for-linux@...r.kernel.org, aliceryhl@...gle.com, andrew@...n.ch
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/5] Rust abstractions for network device drivers

On Fri, Jun 16, 2023 at 4:19 AM Jakub Kicinski <kuba@...nel.org> wrote:
>
> TBH I was hoping that the code will be more like reading "modern C++"
> for a C developer. I can't understand much of what's going on.

Yeah, there are some subtleties in the language, especially in
`unsafe` land and dealing with FFI, but please feel free to ask. I
think if one understands the complexities of modern C++, then
high-level Rust can be mapped fairly well.

> Are there success stories in any subsystem for getting a driver for
> real HW supported? I think the best way to focus the effort would be
> to set a target on a relatively simple device.

DRM is looking into start merging things [1] soon, as far as I
understand, and the GPU driver is being used in Asahi Linux.

If we go a bit outside "real HW", but still "non-sample/toy modules",
my understanding is that Binder is also looking into merging the Rust
implementation in the next few months [2] (they are submitting the
abstractions for their dependencies already).

Then there are other efforts like the NVMe driver, which is
progressing nicely and Andreas has shown nice performance results so
far [3]. Though the upstreaming story for some of those efforts may be
less clear (for different reasons).

Of course, I don't speak for any of them -- I am just trying to give a
summary of how things are going, and a positive outlook :) In the end,
if a subsystem is willing to give things a try, we appreciate it,
because it also makes things easier for others in the future, too.

Perhaps you may want to treat it as an experiment (possibly marking
things as experimental/staging/... explicitly if needed) that allows
you to both learn Rust and whether it suits your subsystem, as well as
a way to possibly get new people/future maintainers involved.

[1] https://lore.kernel.org/rust-for-linux/20230307-rust-drm-v1-0-917ff5bc80a8@asahilina.net/
[2] https://rust-for-linux.com/android-binder-driver
[3] https://rust-for-linux.com/nvme-driver

Cheers,
Miguel