netdev - Re: [RFC PATCH 0/7] Rust Socket abstractions

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Message-ID: <ZN5SVJafETEan6uo@boqun-archlinux>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2023 10:01:08 -0700
From: Boqun Feng <boqun.feng@...il.com>
To: Jakub Kicinski <kuba@...nel.org>
Cc: Michele Dalle Rive <dallerivemichele@...il.com>,
	Andrew Lunn <andrew@...n.ch>, Greg KH <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>,
	Miguel Ojeda <ojeda@...nel.org>,
	Alex Gaynor <alex.gaynor@...il.com>,
	Wedson Almeida Filho <wedsonaf@...il.com>,
	"David S. Miller" <davem@...emloft.net>,
	Eric Dumazet <edumazet@...gle.com>, Paolo Abeni <pabeni@...hat.com>,
	Gary Guo <gary@...yguo.net>,
	Björn Roy Baron <bjorn3_gh@...tonmail.com>,
	Benno Lossin <benno.lossin@...ton.me>,
	Alice Ryhl <aliceryhl@...gle.com>,
	Davide Rovelli <davide.rovelli@....ch>,
	rust-for-linux@...r.kernel.org, netdev@...r.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, patches@...ts.linux.dev
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 0/7] Rust Socket abstractions

On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 08:48:48AM -0700, Jakub Kicinski wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 16:53:03 +0200 Michele Dalle Rive wrote:
> > in the last few days, I had the opportunity to discuss with some people from
> > the RustForLinux community.
> > 
> > I apologize for not being clear: the goal of these APIs was to give some
> > network support to, in particular, out-of-tree modules; they were not meant to
> > be used by a specific module that was planned to get upstreamed as well.
> > The idea behind this patch is that, as of now, Rust is not a viable option for
> > any OOT module that requires even the highest-level network support.
> > 
> > I am wondering whether the `net` subsystem is interested in reviewing, giving
> > feedback and eventually accepting code that is currently OOT-only.
> 
> This is a bit concerning. You can white out Rust in that and plonk in
> some corporate backed project people tried to cram into the kernel
> without understanding the community aspects. I'm not saying it's 
> the same but the tone reads the same.
> 
> "The `net` subsystem" have given "the RustForLinux community" clear
> guidance on what a good integration starting point is. And now someone
> else from Rust comes in and talk about supporting OOT modules.
> 
> I thought the Rust was just shaking up the languages we use, not the
> fundamentals on how this project operates :|

I want to make it clear that Rust is not a way to get anyone a special
pass for OOT support. That's never the intention of people in RUST
maintainer entries.

Here Michele did a good job on honestly sharing the context of the work. 

After the patchset sent, there was a discusion in Rust-for-Linux zulip
about why a in-tree user is needed for review (and merge), and how
people who are interested in networking could work with netdev on
finding useful in-tree users and correct abstraction/bindings. I
personally didn't sense anyone trying to undermining the Linux kernel
development.

Please understand that "the RustForLinux community" cannot control
everyone's mind to make them aware of Linux kernel's contribution
policy, but surely there is no execuse not reading:

	https://docs.kernel.org/process/development-process.html	

before contribution.

Regards,
Boqun