netdev - Re: [patch net-next] virtio_net: add support for Byte Queue Limits

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Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2024 09:19:51 +0800
From: Jason Wang <jasowang@...hat.com>
To: "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@...hat.com>
Cc: Jiri Pirko <jiri@...nulli.us>, Jason Xing <kerneljasonxing@...il.com>, 
	Heng Qi <hengqi@...ux.alibaba.com>, davem@...emloft.net, edumazet@...gle.com, 
	kuba@...nel.org, pabeni@...hat.com, xuanzhuo@...ux.alibaba.com, 
	virtualization@...ts.linux.dev, ast@...nel.org, daniel@...earbox.net, 
	hawk@...nel.org, john.fastabend@...il.com, netdev@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [patch net-next] virtio_net: add support for Byte Queue Limits

On Tue, Jun 18, 2024 at 12:16 AM Michael S. Tsirkin <mst@...hat.com> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 11:30:36AM +0200, Jiri Pirko wrote:
> > Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 03:44:55AM CEST, jasowang@...hat.com wrote:
> > >On Mon, Jun 10, 2024 at 10:19 PM Michael S. Tsirkin <mst@...hat.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, Jun 07, 2024 at 01:30:34PM +0200, Jiri Pirko wrote:
> > >> > Fri, Jun 07, 2024 at 12:23:37PM CEST, mst@...hat.com wrote:
> > >> > >On Fri, Jun 07, 2024 at 11:57:37AM +0200, Jiri Pirko wrote:
> > >> > >> >True. Personally, I would like to just drop orphan mode. But I'm not
> > >> > >> >sure others are happy with this.
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> How about to do it other way around. I will take a stab at sending patch
> > >> > >> removing it. If anyone is against and has solid data to prove orphan
> > >> > >> mode is needed, let them provide those.
> > >> > >
> > >> > >Break it with no warning and see if anyone complains?
> > >> >
> > >> > This is now what I suggested at all.
> > >> >
> > >> > >No, this is not how we handle userspace compatibility, normally.
> > >> >
> > >> > Sure.
> > >> >
> > >> > Again:
> > >> >
> > >> > I would send orphan removal patch containing:
> > >> > 1) no module options removal. Warn if someone sets it up
> > >> > 2) module option to disable napi is ignored
> > >> > 3) orphan mode is removed from code
> > >> >
> > >> > There is no breakage. Only, hypotetically performance downgrade in some
> > >> > hypotetical usecase nobody knows of.
> > >>
> > >> Performance is why people use virtio. It's as much a breakage as any
> > >> other bug. The main difference is, with other types of breakage, they
> > >> are typically binary and we can not tolerate them at all.  A tiny,
> > >> negligeable performance regression might be tolarable if it brings
> > >> other benefits. I very much doubt avoiding interrupts is
> > >> negligeable though. And making code simpler isn't a big benefit,
> > >> users do not care.
> > >
> > >It's not just making code simpler. As discussed in the past, it also
> > >fixes real bugs.
> > >
> > >>
> > >> > My point was, if someone presents
> > >> > solid data to prove orphan is needed during the patch review, let's toss
> > >> > out the patch.
> > >> >
> > >> > Makes sense?
> > >>
> > >> It's not hypothetical - if anything, it's hypothetical that performance
> > >> does not regress.  And we just got a report from users that see a
> > >> regression without.  So, not really.
> > >
> > >Probably, but do we need to define a bar here? Looking at git history,
> > >we didn't ask a full benchmark for a lot of commits that may touch
>
> It's patently obvious that not getting interrupts is better than
> getting interrupts.

Exactly. But dropping orphan mode seems less intrusive than the commit
that makes NAPI default.

Thanks

> The onus of proof would be on people who claim
> otherwise.
>
>
> > Moreover, there is no "benchmark" to run anyway, is it?
> >
>
> Tought.  Talk to users that report regressions.
>
>
>
> > >performance.
> > >
> > >Thanks
> > >
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >--
> > >> > >MST
> > >> > >
> > >>
> > >
>