netdev - Re: [PATCH v2 3/3] tun: Set num

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Message-ID: <CACGkMEsJUb3ZLm3rLuaayDAS4kf-vbY03wL4M9j1K+Z=a4BDig@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2025 08:40:55 +0800
From: Jason Wang <jasowang@...hat.com>
To: Akihiko Odaki <akihiko.odaki@...nix.com>
Cc: "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@...hat.com>, Jonathan Corbet <corbet@....net>, 
	Willem de Bruijn <willemdebruijn.kernel@...il.com>, "David S. Miller" <davem@...emloft.net>, 
	Eric Dumazet <edumazet@...gle.com>, Jakub Kicinski <kuba@...nel.org>, Paolo Abeni <pabeni@...hat.com>, 
	Xuan Zhuo <xuanzhuo@...ux.alibaba.com>, Shuah Khan <shuah@...nel.org>, linux-doc@...r.kernel.org, 
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, netdev@...r.kernel.org, kvm@...r.kernel.org, 
	virtualization@...ts.linux-foundation.org, linux-kselftest@...r.kernel.org, 
	Yuri Benditovich <yuri.benditovich@...nix.com>, Andrew Melnychenko <andrew@...nix.com>, 
	Stephen Hemminger <stephen@...workplumber.org>, gur.stavi@...wei.com, devel@...nix.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 3/3] tun: Set num_buffers for virtio 1.0

On Thu, Jan 16, 2025 at 1:30 PM Akihiko Odaki <akihiko.odaki@...nix.com> wrote:
>
> On 2025/01/16 10:06, Jason Wang wrote:
> > On Wed, Jan 15, 2025 at 1:07 PM Akihiko Odaki <akihiko.odaki@...nix.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 2025/01/13 12:04, Jason Wang wrote:
> >>> On Fri, Jan 10, 2025 at 7:12 PM Akihiko Odaki <akihiko.odaki@...nix.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On 2025/01/10 19:23, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> >>>>> On Fri, Jan 10, 2025 at 11:27:13AM +0800, Jason Wang wrote:
> >>>>>> On Thu, Jan 9, 2025 at 2:59 PM Akihiko Odaki <akihiko.odaki@...nix.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The specification says the device MUST set num_buffers to 1 if
> >>>>>>> VIRTIO_NET_F_MRG_RXBUF has not been negotiated.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Have we agreed on how to fix the spec or not?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> As I replied in the spec patch, if we just remove this "MUST", it
> >>>>>> looks like we are all fine?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We should replace MUST with SHOULD but it is not all fine,
> >>>>> ignoring SHOULD is a quality of implementation issue.
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>> So is this something that the driver should notice?
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Should we really replace it? It would mean that a driver conformant with
> >>>> the current specification may not be compatible with a device conformant
> >>>> with the future specification.
> >>>
> >>> I don't get this. We are talking about devices and we want to relax so
> >>> it should compatibile.
> >>
> >>
> >> The problem is:
> >> 1) On the device side, the num_buffers can be left uninitialized due to bugs
> >> 2) On the driver side, the specification allows assuming the num_buffers
> >> is set to one.
> >>
> >> Relaxing the device requirement will replace "due to bugs" with
> >> "according to the specification" in 1). It still contradicts with 2) so
> >> does not fix compatibility.
> >
> > Just to clarify I meant we can simply remove the following:
> >
> > """
> > The device MUST use only a single descriptor if VIRTIO_NET_F_MRG_RXBUF
> > was not negotiated. Note: This means that num_buffers will always be 1
> > if VIRTIO_NET_F_MRG_RXBUF is not negotiated.
> > """
> >
> > And
> >
> > """
> > If VIRTIO_NET_F_MRG_RXBUF has not been negotiated, the device MUST set
> > num_buffers to 1.
> > """
> >
> > This seems easier as it reflects the fact where some devices don't set
> > it. And it eases the transitional device as it doesn't need to have
> > any special care.
>
> That can potentially break existing drivers that are compliant with the
> current and assumes the num_buffers is set to 1.

Those drivers are already 'broken'. Aren't they?

Thanks

>
> Regards,
> Akihiko Odaki
>
> >
> > Then we don't need any driver normative so I don't see any conflict.
> >
> > Michael suggests we use "SHOULD", but if this is something that the
> > driver needs to be aware of I don't know how "SHOULD" can help a lot
> > or not.
> >
> >>
> >> Instead, we should make the driver requirement stricter to change 2).
> >> That is what "[PATCH v3] virtio-net: Ignore num_buffers when unused" does:
> >> https://lore.kernel.org/r/20250110-reserved-v3-1-2ade0a5d2090@daynix.com
> >>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> We are going to fix all implementations known to buggy (QEMU and Linux)
> >>>> anyway so I think it's just fine to leave that part of specification as is.
> >>>
> >>> I don't think we can fix it all.
> >>
> >> It essentially only requires storing 16 bits. There are details we need
> >> to work out, but it should be possible to fix.
> >
> > I meant it's not realistic to fix all the hypervisors. Note that
> > modern devices have been implemented for about a decade so we may have
> > too many versions of various hypervisors. (E.g DPDK seems to stick
> > with the same behaviour of the current kernel).
>  > >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Akihiko Odaki
> >>
> >
> > Thanks
> >
>