Message-ID: <Z8Cxt+NrrO5L/AgP@boxer>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2025 19:40:55 +0100
From: Maciej Fijalkowski <maciej.fijalkowski@...el.com>
To: Alexei Starovoitov <alexei.starovoitov@...il.com>
CC: Jakub Kicinski <kuba@...nel.org>, bpf <bpf@...r.kernel.org>, "Alexei
 Starovoitov" <ast@...nel.org>, Daniel Borkmann <daniel@...earbox.net>,
	"Andrii Nakryiko" <andrii@...nel.org>, Network Development
	<netdev@...r.kernel.org>, "Karlsson, Magnus" <magnus.karlsson@...el.com>,
	Martin KaFai Lau <martin.lau@...ux.dev>, Amery Hung <ameryhung@...il.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH bpf-next 0/3] bpf: introduce skb refcount kfuncs

On Wed, Feb 26, 2025 at 09:30:18AM -0800, Alexei Starovoitov wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2025 at 6:27 AM Maciej Fijalkowski
> <maciej.fijalkowski@...el.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 21, 2025 at 05:55:57PM -0800, Alexei Starovoitov wrote:
> > > On Thu, Feb 20, 2025 at 5:45 AM Maciej Fijalkowski
> > > <maciej.fijalkowski@...el.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi!
> > > >
> > > > This patchset provides what is needed for storing skbs as kptrs in bpf
> > > > maps. We start with necessary kernel change as discussed at [0] with
> > > > Martin, then next patch adds kfuncs for handling skb refcount and on top
> > > > of that a test case is added where one program stores skbs and then next
> > > > program is able to retrieve them from map.
> > > >
> > > > Martin, regarding the kernel change I decided to go with boolean
> > > > approach instead of what you initially suggested. Let me know if it
> > > > works for you.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Maciej
> > > >
> > > > [0]: https://lore.kernel.org/bpf/Z0X%2F9PhIhvQwsgfW@boxer/
> > >
> > > Before we go further we need a lot more details on "why" part.
> > > In the old thread I was able to find:
> > >
> > > > On TC egress hook skb is stored in a map ...
> > > > During TC ingress hook on the same interface, the skb that was previously
> > > stored in map is retrieved ...
> > >
> > > This is too cryptic. I see several concerns with such use case
> > > including netns crossing, L2/L3 mismatch, skb_scrub.
> > >
> > > I doubt we can make such "skb stash in a map" safe without
> > > restricting the usage, so please provide detailed
> > > description of the use case.
> >
> > Hi Alexei,
> >
> > We have a system with two nodes: one is a fully fledged Linux system (big node)
> > and the other one a smaller embedded system. The big node runs Linux PTP for
> > time synchronization, the smaller node we have no control over (might run Linux
> > or something else). The problem is that we would like to use the Tx timestamps
> > from the small node in the Linux PTP application on the big node. When a packet
> > is sent out from the big node it arrives at the small node that send it out one
> > of its interfaces. It then replies with another packet back to the big node
> > with the Tx timestamp in it.
> >
> > Our current PoC for attacking this is to store the skb in a map (using this
> > patch set) when it is sent out from the big node then retrieve it from the map
> > when the reply from the small node is received. We then take the timestamp from
> > the packet and put it in the skb and send it up to the socket error queue so
> > that Linux PTP works out of the box.
> 
> This sounds like you're actually xmit-ing the skb out of the big node
> and storing it in a map via simple refcnt++.
> That may work in some setups, but in general is not quite correct
> from networking stack pov.
> You need to skb_clone() it and keep the clone, so only cloned skb
> can go into the socket error queue and up to user space.
> xmit-ing the same skb and sending to user space
> is going to cause issues.

This skb only goes to errqueue and then gets its refcount decremented
and dropped, we do not xmit that skb per-se.

> 
> Cleaner design would probably involve bpf_clone_redirect()
> and may be some form of bpf-qdisc where packet is waiting in the queue
> until its hwtimestamp is adjusted and its released from the queue
> into user space.

We were working on clone initially but map storage turned out to be much
cleaner approach, but we can re-iterate on that in case explanation
provided above regarding not xmitting stored skb still feels off for you.

> 
> What happens when small node doesn't send that timestamped packet?
> The map will eventually overflow, right?
> Overall it feels that stashing skb-s in a map isn't the right approach.

We did not handle that in our demo but I believe BPF timers would be
useful here, wouldn't they?

> 
> > Note that for the purpose of setting skb->hwtstamp and sending it up to the
> > error queue we are adding a kfunc (bpf_tx_tstamp) responsible for it, which is
> > not included in this set, so I understand it is not obvious what we achieved
> > with the current form of this patch set being discussed.
> >
> > We did not consider the restrictions that should be implemented from netns POV,
> > so that is a good point. How would you see this being fixed?
> >

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