netdev - RE: [RFC PATCH 00/13] Ultra Ethernet driver introduction

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Message-ID:
 <BN8PR15MB25136EC9F3DE1FBEF9B2429199D12@BN8PR15MB2513.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2025 14:20:07 +0000
From: Bernard Metzler <BMT@...ich.ibm.com>
To: Parav Pandit <parav@...dia.com>, Leon Romanovsky <leon@...nel.org>,
        Nikolay Aleksandrov <nikolay@...abrica.net>
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	<kuba@...nel.org>, Paolo Abeni <pabeni@...hat.com>,
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Subject: RE: [RFC PATCH 00/13] Ultra Ethernet driver introduction

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Parav Pandit <parav@...dia.com>
> Sent: Sunday, March 9, 2025 4:22 AM
> To: Leon Romanovsky <leon@...nel.org>; Nikolay Aleksandrov
> <nikolay@...abrica.net>
> Cc: netdev@...r.kernel.org; shrijeet@...abrica.net;
> alex.badea@...sight.com; eric.davis@...adcom.com; rip.sohan@....com;
> dsahern@...nel.org; Bernard Metzler <BMT@...ich.ibm.com>;
> roland@...abrica.net; winston.liu@...sight.com;
> dan.mihailescu@...sight.com; Kamal Heib <kheib@...hat.com>;
> parth.v.parikh@...sight.com; Dave Miller <davem@...hat.com>;
> ian.ziemba@....com; andrew.tauferner@...nelisnetworks.com;
> welch@....com; rakhahari.bhunia@...sight.com;
> kingshuk.mandal@...sight.com; linux-rdma@...r.kernel.org;
> kuba@...nel.org; Paolo Abeni <pabeni@...hat.com>; Jason Gunthorpe
> <jgg@...dia.com>
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [RFC PATCH 00/13] Ultra Ethernet driver
> introduction
> 
> 
> 
> > From: Leon Romanovsky <leon@...nel.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, March 9, 2025 12:17 AM
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 07, 2025 at 01:01:50AM +0200, Nikolay Aleksandrov wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> >
> > <...>
> >
> > > Ultra Ethernet is a new RDMA transport.
> >
> > Awesome, and now please explain why new subsystem is needed when
> > drivers/infiniband already supports at least 5 different RDMA
> transports
> > (OmniPath, iWARP, Infiniband, RoCE v1 and RoCE v2).
> >
> 6th transport is drivers/infiniband/hw/efa (srd).
> 
> > Maybe after this discussion it will be very clear that new subsystem
> is needed,
> > but at least it needs to be stated clearly.

I am not sure if a new subsystem is what this RFC calls
for, but rather a discussion about the proper integration of
a new RDMA transport into the Linux kernel.

Ultra Ethernet Transport is probably not just another transport
up for easy integration into the current RDMA subsystem.
First of all, its design does not follow the well-known RDMA
verbs model inherited from InfiniBand, which has largely shaped
the current structure of the RDMA subsystem. While having send,
receive and completion queues (and completion counters) to steer
message exchange, there is no concept of a queue pair. Endpoints
can span multiple queues, can have multiple peer addresses.
Communication resources sharing is controlled in a different way
than within protection domains. Connections are ephemeral,
created and released by the provider as needed. There are more
differences. In a nutshell, the UET communication model is
trimmed for extreme scalability. Its API semantics follow
libfabrics, not RDMA verbs.

I think Nik gave us a first still incomplete look at the UET
protocol engine to help us understand some of the specifics.
It's just the lower part (packet delivery). The implementation
of the upper part (resource management, communication semantics,
job management) may largely depend on the environment we all
choose.

IMO, integrating UET with the current RDMA subsystem would ask
for its extension to allow exposing all of UETs intended
functionality, probably starting with a more generic RDMA
device model than current ib_device.

The different API semantics of UET may further call
for either extending verbs to cover it as well, or exposing a
new non-verbs API (libfabrics), or both.

Thanks,
Bernard.

> >
> > An please CC RDMA maintainers to any Ultra Ethernet related
> discussions as it
> > is more RDMA than Ethernet.
> >
> > Thanks