netdev - Re: [PATCH 27/32] nsfs: support file handles

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Message-ID: <20250912-wirsing-karibus-7f6a98621dd1@brauner>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2025 10:19:57 +0200
From: Christian Brauner <brauner@...nel.org>
To: Amir Goldstein <amir73il@...il.com>
Cc: Jan Kara <jack@...e.cz>, linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org, 
	Josef Bacik <josef@...icpanda.com>, Jeff Layton <jlayton@...nel.org>, Mike Yuan <me@...dnzj.com>, 
	Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek <zbyszek@...waw.pl>, Lennart Poettering <mzxreary@...inter.de>, 
	Daan De Meyer <daan.j.demeyer@...il.com>, Aleksa Sarai <cyphar@...har.com>, 
	Alexander Viro <viro@...iv.linux.org.uk>, Jens Axboe <axboe@...nel.dk>, Tejun Heo <tj@...nel.org>, 
	Johannes Weiner <hannes@...xchg.org>, Michal Koutný <mkoutny@...e.com>, 
	Eric Dumazet <edumazet@...gle.com>, Jakub Kicinski <kuba@...nel.org>, 
	Paolo Abeni <pabeni@...hat.com>, Simon Horman <horms@...nel.org>, 
	Chuck Lever <chuck.lever@...cle.com>, linux-nfs@...r.kernel.org, linux-kselftest@...r.kernel.org, 
	linux-block@...r.kernel.org, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, cgroups@...r.kernel.org, 
	netdev@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 27/32] nsfs: support file handles

On Thu, Sep 11, 2025 at 01:36:28PM +0200, Amir Goldstein wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 11, 2025 at 11:31 AM Christian Brauner <brauner@...nel.org> wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 10, 2025 at 07:21:22PM +0200, Amir Goldstein wrote:
> > > On Wed, Sep 10, 2025 at 4:39 PM Christian Brauner <brauner@...nel.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A while ago we added support for file handles to pidfs so pidfds can be
> > > > encoded and decoded as file handles. Userspace has adopted this quickly
> > > > and it's proven very useful.
> > >
> > > > Pidfd file handles are exhaustive meaning
> > > > they don't require a handle on another pidfd to pass to
> > > > open_by_handle_at() so it can derive the filesystem to decode in.
> > > >
> > > > Implement the exhaustive file handles for namespaces as well.
> > >
> > > I think you decide to split the "exhaustive" part to another patch,
> > > so better drop this paragraph?
> >
> > Yes, good point. I've dont that.
> >
> > > I am missing an explanation about the permissions for
> > > opening these file handles.
> > >
> > > My understanding of the code is that the opener needs to meet one of
> > > the conditions:
> > > 1. user has CAP_SYS_ADMIN in the userns owning the opened namespace
> > > 2. current task is in the opened namespace
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > >
> > > But I do not fully understand the rationale behind the 2nd condition,
> > > that is, when is it useful?
> >
> > A caller is always able to open a file descriptor to it's own set of
> > namespaces. File handles will behave the same way.
> >
> 
> I understand why it's safe, and I do not object to it at all,
> I just feel that I do not fully understand the use case of how ns file handles
> are expected to be used.
> A process can always open /proc/self/ns/mnt
> What's the use case where a process may need to open its own ns by handle?
> 
> I will explain. For CAP_SYS_ADMIN I can see why keeping handles that
> do not keep an elevated refcount of ns object could be useful in the same
> way that an NFS client keeps file handles without keeping the file object alive.
> 
> But if you do not have CAP_SYS_ADMIN and can only open your own ns
> by handle, what is the application that could make use of this?
> and what's the benefit of such application keeping a file handle instead of
> ns fd?

A process is not always able to open /proc/self/ns/. That requires
procfs to be mounted and for /proc/self/ or /proc/self/ns/ to not be
overmounted. However, they can derive a namespace fd from their own
pidfd. And that also always works if it's their own namespace.

There's no need to introduce unnecessary behavioral differences between
/proc/self/ns/, pidfd-derived namespace fs, and file-handle-derived
namespace fds. That's just going to be confusing.

The other thing is that there are legitimate use-case for encoding your
own namespace. For example, you might store file handles to your set of
namespaces in a file on-disk so you can verify when you get rexeced that
they're still valid and so on. This is akin to the pidfd use-case.

Or just plainly for namespace comparison reasons where you keep a file
handle to your own namespaces and can then easily check against others.