phc-discussions - RE: [PHC] blakerypt sequential memory-hard function

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite for Android: free password hash cracker in your pocket

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Message-ID: <005701cef1d5$4b6e4910$e24adb30$@acm.org>
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 08:16:02 -0800
From: "Dennis E. Hamilton" <dennis.hamilton@....org>
To: <discussions@...sword-hashing.net>
Subject: RE: [PHC] blakerypt sequential memory-hard function

I favor Fibonacci indexes for this sort of thing.  That is k, in a small number of bits, produces work factor fib(k+n) where n is some value that assures a reasonable minimum and the maximum fib(k+n) is decisively out of reach for any forseeable time into the future.

The advantage is that the Fibonacci recurrence provides a nice way of deriving k on the fly by seeing how much time is being taken in real time, and incrementing by the next step if a target threshold has not been reached.  This does mean that k is not known until the hashing has been completed, and the protocol has to accommodate that.  

The advantage is that k will grow along with growth in processor power.  One disadvantage in certain applications is that the speed of the system where the hash is first created determines the work factor that less powerful systems will need to employ in order to verify the hash.

This technique is applicable in the SHA1DK method proposed at <https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/document.php?document_id=49071>.

 - Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: Krisztián Pintér [mailto:pinterkr@...il.com] 
Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2013 00:04
To: discussions@...sword-hashing.net
Subject: Re: [PHC] blakerypt sequential memory-hard function

Andy Lutomirski (at Thursday, December 5, 2013, 2:26:19 AM):
> Using 2^f_time as the iteration count seems unnecessarily restrictive
> -- is there any reason not to just use f_time?

IMO such things should not be part of the algorithm unless intrinsic,
and also should not be part of the submission. it is part of the
interface.

but if we are at it, this could be used as a sort of middle ground
parametrization: take f_a and f_b parameters, and use f_time = f_a <<
f_b . this grants fine control over f_time even if f_a and f_b are
small, like bytes. but still scalable up to ridiculous levels
(255*2^255).

but again, this is part of the interface, and not the algorithm.