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Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 20:41:07 -0600 (CST)
From: Steve Thomas <>
Subject: Re: [PHC] Native server relief support for password hashing in

> On January 19, 2014 at 6:47 AM Bill Cox <> wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 3:59 PM, Stephen Touset <> wrote:
> > My original idea behind the blakerypt session key was to defeat cache
> > analysis.
> >
> > However, the Catena guys seemingly have a much better approach than mine,
> > which doesn't require the hash to be keyed, so I have effectively bowed out
> > of the competition to make room for the professionals here who know what
> > they are doing. :)
> I would hate to see entries like Blakerypt bow out because of Catena.
> If I drop out, it will be because of excellent real-world work like
> escrypt. Catena has some excellent theoretical work, but until I see
> an implementation that begins to approach the security of Scrypt, I
> don't see it as a real contender.

So I guess you've seen this ( and
benchmarked both of them. What were your results? I've been meaning
to do this for a while. Along with others.

> The Catena paper blew me away and I stole some of their ideas
> wholesale. However, it seems like an academic solution at this stage.
> It has nothing to support modern memory architectures, no useful
> parallelism, and no high performance hashing. Of course, all of that
> can be added, but until I see a real-world solution, it remains
> theoretical work in my mind.

Catena uses Blake2b which has parallelism in it. SHA512 was added
because there was a PHP implementation that used SHA512. SHA512 is
built into PHP and will be faster than Blake2b written in PHP.
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