phc-discussions - Re: [PHC] A little nit which bothers me...

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Message-ID: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C738A3439CD@uxcn10-tdc06.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2014 05:55:07 +0000
From: Peter Gutmann <pgut001@...auckland.ac.nz>
To: "discussions@...sword-hashing.net" <discussions@...sword-hashing.net>
Subject: Re: [PHC] A little nit which bothers me...

Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@....freebsd.dk> writes:

>When the static value goes into the HASH before the entropy, it can be
>integrated into the initialization of the hash function, both in hardware and
>software, trading space for time.
>
>This bothers me because I specifically addressed and commented on this little
>detail in my md5crypt 20 years ago:

I also used this to break Microsoft's PFX/PKCS #12 back in 1997:

  As it turns out, we can eliminate 6 of the 8 passes, cutting our workload by
  75%.  First, we observe that the diversifier is a constant value, so instead
  of setting it up and hashing it, we precompute the hash and store the hash
  value.  This eliminates the diversifier, and one pass through SHA-1.

  Next, we observe that the salt never changes for the file being attacked, so
  again instead of setting it up and hashing it, we precompute the hash and
  store the hash value.  This eliminates the diversifier, and another pass
  through SHA-1.

This still works today, seventeen years later :-).

>And yes, I realize it's all my own fault for not publishing an article about
>my thinking back then, but as far as I am concerned this is a firm rule now:
>
>        Feed data into hash functions in order of decreasing entropy.

Good point!  Note though that it only becomes critical if the function doesn't
have a feedback path that feeds its output back to the input.  For example
PBKDF2 hashes some static data on the first iteration but then feeds the
output back to the input, and the salt is (typically) smaller than the block
size, so you lose, at most, one round of hashing, but most likely zero.  The
PFX derivation, OTOH, is about as bad as you can make it.

Peter.