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Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2014 08:07:33 +0000
From: Peter Gutmann <>
To: "" <>
Subject: Re: [PHC] Re: Mechanical tests

Poul-Henning Kamp <> writes:

>In message <>, Daniel Franke writes:
>>The definition of weakly-secure KDF, given in
>This is not a KDF-contest.
>This is a password-scrambler contest.

We know that, but they don't, no matter how big we write it on the web
site/final specification/media announcement.  If we don't set KDF-style
requirements then at some point someone is going to run the PHC-winner's
output through Dieharder and announce on Slashdot/a conference paper/front
page of the NY Times that the PHC chose a flawed algorithm, and no amount of
trying to explain the difference between a KDF and a PHC will overcome that.
So it had better act as a KDF, whether that was an original design goal or


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