phc-discussions - Re: [PHC] Re: Mechanical tests

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite for Android: free password hash cracker in your pocket

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2014 14:32:24 +0200
From: Christian Forler <christian.forler@...-weimar.de>
To: discussions@...sword-hashing.net
Subject: Re: [PHC] Re: Mechanical tests

On 06.04.2014 10:07, Peter Gutmann wrote:

>> In message <877g73ofj5.fsf@...fjaw.dfranke.us>, Daniel Franke writes:
>>
>>> The definition of weakly-secure KDF, given in
>>
>> This is not a KDF-contest.
>>
>> This is a password-scrambler contest.
> 
> We know that, but they don't, no matter how big we write it on the web
> site/final specification/media announcement.  If we don't set KDF-style
> requirements then at some point someone is going to run the PHC-winner's
> output through Dieharder and announce on Slashdot/a conference paper/front
> page of the NY Times that the PHC chose a flawed algorithm, and no amount of
> trying to explain the difference between a KDF and a PHC will overcome that.
> So it had better act as a KDF, whether that was an original design goal or
> not.
I strongly agree. Some people will be very confused about the fact that
a "secure" password scrambler can not simply "turned into" a secure KDF.

BTW I do not know if you have already noticed, but we (the Catena design
team an others) try to establish the notion of "scrambling". It is a
"synonym" for "slow hashing". I think this is a good idea since the
notion of "password hashing" encourage people to derive a password hash
from a plain hash function, e.g., SHA-512..

Best regards,
Christian




Download attachment "signature.asc" of type "application/pgp-signature" (535 bytes)