phc-discussions - Re: [PHC] Schvrch is broken

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Message-ID: <5418C7C1.5090108@ciphershed.org>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 19:29:05 -0400
From: Bill Cox <waywardgeek@...hershed.org>
To: discussions@...sword-hashing.net
Subject: Re: [PHC] Schvrch is broken

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On 09/16/2014 07:19 PM, Rade Vuckovac wrote:
> My err, lapsus ... apologies ... I keep forgetting that.

No problem.  There is zero reason for you to apologize, while I have
several.  Thanks for introducing me to Wolfram's Rule 30 :-)

> The solution is simple with reintroducing mixer with value
> 010101... instead of 000000... (was there in the first place to
> nullify above mentioned xor properties) Mixer addition is actually
> the only difference between stir and revolve and it was dropped
> (long time ago) for the performance sake believing it was safe
> thing to do.

I did my best to attack your stir function, and failed.  I believe it
mixes securely, if slowly.

> On the positive side the 117 lines of code will shrink considerably
> (less chance for bugs) and the algorithm will become significantly
> simpler (will be posted in near future).

I look forward to it.  My preference for implementing Wolfram's Rule
30 is this loop:

static uint128_t updateState(uint128_t a) {
    uint128_t lsb = a & 1;
    uint128_t msb = a >> 127;
    return ((a << 1) | msb) ^ (a | (a >> 1) | (lsb << 127));
}

This would work well in our SIMD uints, and mixes reasonably fast.
Keccak combined this with moving lot's of data around to get near and
far data mixing, similar to what Blake2b seems to do.  This whole
AND-XOR-ROTATE thing is cool, and not that I know much about this
stuff, but I only learned about because I reviewed your code, and
eventually read your paper.  It is very cool stuff.

I do get the feeling that you are not a programmer by trade.  I happen
to be an old code-monkey.  If you would like, I would be happy to work
with you on a revised version so we can clean up some of the holes
before letting Steve have a crack at it :-)

Bill
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