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Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 08:10:27 -0800
From: "Dennis E. Hamilton" <>
To: <>
Subject: RE: [PHC] How important is salting really?

-----Original Message-----
From: epixoip [] 
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 03:13
Subject: Re: [PHC] How important is salting really?

[ ... ] In other words, an algorithm must not rely on solely upon salting. In other
other words, something like sha256(s.p) is insufficient.


  I am having difficulty understanding the case where 

		H_i = hash(salt_i, pw_i*) 

  is necessary but not sufficient.

  It would help me to understand the use case better.

  Assume that everything above but pw_i* is known to
  the adversary.  The "hash" is a cryptographically
  adequate near-one-way transformation and whatever 
  the work factor and resource costs are, they are
  not too costly for the defender.  

  Now, for a corpus of (salt_i, H_i) pairs, salt_i 
  Are assured to be unique.  Assume salt_i and H_i 
  are of the same order (number of bits) and the
  salt_i are at least half cryptographically-
  random bits. 

  What are the search model and initial conditions
  such that cracking one pair for pw_i* makes 
  cracking a different pair easier to any practical 
  degree?  Put differently, what must N, the size
  of the corpus being attacked, be for the N-th
  crack to be twice as fast as the first, and how
  does that work out as an average cost per crack?

  I think this fits the password-hashing conditions,
  with regard to the presumption that all but the
  pw_i* are disclosed (and any other parameters
  are fixed for the given corpus).

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