phc-discussions - Re: [PHC] Verbify "password hash"

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Message-ID: <CADwHJ+8OyrVb7huJZBN8mskvFM4+B6U4T-4qWr0d1wLX-Q3P+A@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 23 May 2016 00:10:29 +0200
From: Maarten Bodewes <maarten.bodewes@...il.com>
To: discussions@...sword-hashing.net
Subject: Re: [PHC] Verbify "password hash"

Hi Scott,

"Perform password hashing" (yes, that's sidestepping the issue), or
otherwise "perform password based key derivation" (PBKDF2 is password based
key derivation function #2, and PBKDF can be thought of as a generic name
for a function performing password hashing).

I don't like key stretching.

   - First of all, a Key Based KDF such as HKDF can also perform key
   stretching.
   - Second, key stretching is a function that's part of the password
   hashing - it's not identical to it. HKDF for instance consists of two
   parts: HKDF-Extract and HKDF-Expand. The key stretching would be (part of)
   HKDF-Expand.
   - And finally, most people would not put a connection between key
   stretching and password hashing.

"Phash" is probably the best shorthand. But I'm not sure that there is a
need for one, nor that it will get any traction.

Regards,
Maarten

2016-05-22 23:48 GMT+02:00 Scott Arciszewski <scott@...agonie.com>:

> On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 5:27 PM, Krisztián Pintér <pinterkr@...il.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Scott Arciszewski (at Sunday, May 22, 2016, 11:17:28 PM):
> >>       * Password hash functions
> >>         * ?????
> >
> >>     Don't encrypt passwords. Don't hash passwords. Instead, ______
> passwords.
> >
> >
> > i think this came up earlier. my take: stretch. pbkdf is also good,
> > but long, and not accurate, as we don't always derive a key, we might
> > derive a verifier.
> >
>
> I like "stretch" as well. Especially since the phrase "key stretching"
> is already used in this context, i.e.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_stretching
>
> Scott Arciszewski
> Chief Development Officer
> Paragon Initiative Enterprises <https://paragonie.com>
>

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